Dreaded rust

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markhowes
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I've seen this on several other Gs so it's obviously a common problem. Anyone know why it happens here (on the wing just above the headlamp) and is there a special way to ensure it doesn't come back again when having this area painted?

Arnie
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Re: Dreaded rust

Because:

1) the plastic headlamp surround rubs on the paint and car wear it thin. Water can then wick-up through the broken paint edge.

2) the screw holes from the headlamp bracket also provide a broken paint surface, just below that.

3) the area behind the plastic surround rarely gets properly cleaned.

 

Its should be OK once treated and repainted.

(I removed the headlamps when the vehicle was still relatively new and Waxoyled the whole area, inside and out. No problems yet)

 

Other areas include

  • rear body two lower corners where 45 deg diagonal strut across the rear wheel-arch attaches , leading to vertical join seam of rear panel.
  • windscreen surround beneath rubber seal (inject waxoyl between body and seal)
  • front edge of sunroof
  • join-seam between lower and upper bosd, all round vehicle, but particularly at rear where stressed by rear wheel weight. (Paint and filler mastic cracks from flexing)
  • same seam on lower windscreen (paint cracks from flexing)

 

 

 

 

 

scouse g
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Re: Dreaded rust

You need to get that wing off and knock seven kinds of rust out of it, that's coming from the underside and from experience will probably require welding , treating and sealing,  zinc phosphate paint and stonechip or buy a new wing

g wagon g
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Re: Dreaded rust

The g wagon i am selling has the same issue. My g wagon that is no where near as tidy has no rust and is original


The rust on the new one . I asked if i could press on it and see if it was just surface rust or a rot hole. It was fine and was solid


Your pics are not clear to see how bad the rust is


If it was rotten its a nice flat surface easy repair that would last the life of the vehicle if done well. Dont worry about it. I would say to repair that at a good body shop would be 200 to 250 absolute maximum


This would be for  long term perfect repair. If just for looks and it would not last long i would say 120

g wagon g
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Re: Dreaded rust

Cut rust out and weld plate in if required

If its just surface rust and no pin holes of rot or rust worm . Sandblast area and check for any holes. If there are any cut and weld . If not and underside of wing is perfect rust free

Coat with epoxy primer after sandblasting. This stuff is hard to sand and is perfect and seals out any moisture or water. Flat off and then apply top coat

If the rest of the wing is perfect and mint i would just repair that part of it. Check wing thoroughly as it would be a shame to have to repair another part in a short while later

 

markhowes
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Re: Dreaded rust

OK - silly question from Mr Stupid here - how do I remove the headlamp surrounds?

I'd like to get them off so I can have a proper look at the area underneath where the rust is to see what's going on there.

I thought it was the 2 screws accessible at the bottom of the cowl but I have a feeling they might be for headlamp adjustment as they seem to rotate left and right.

Arnie
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Re: Dreaded rust

Just LOOSEN the two screws at the bottom of the cowl. Then, remove the six M6 bolts and their rubber washers/spacer tubes at the top of the front grill (careful not to drop them) and gently tilt the front grill forwards. Then, lift up and out the headlamp surround cowl.

The headlamp cowl is held by a clip at the top from behind, and at the sides by the front grill. Once the two screws at the bottom, which secure the cowl by two slitted tabs are loosened, it can slide up and out of the top clip. The front grill also needs to be out of the way, by tilting forwards.

 

If you have headlamp washers, you'll also have to maneuver a hose behind the grill, leading up to the rear of the cowl.

 

markhowes
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Re: Dreaded rust

Many thanks Arnie

Have now managed to do that (yes I do have headlamp washers).

Unfortunately it didn't allow me simple access to underneath the front of the wing so will give it some more thought. Removing the complete wing seems a bit drastic for a bit of bubbling paintwork..


 

 

jhw.
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Re: Dreaded rust

The wing will 100% need to come off if you want to do it right.

Yes you can scuff/fill and paint it to bodge it up for a year until more rust comes through, but I bet any money there will be other areas of this wing that need welding and painting, ie around rubber trim fixings, and probably a little part of the inner wing which is easily accessible while the wing is off.

Like Graham said, have the wing off, knock 7 bells out of the rust, have it repaired properly with seam welds and new metal, zinc primer, stone chip etc the inside, and 2k primer/paint the outside as normal. No point doing things by halves, as you'll have do it over and over again.

Arnie
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Re: Dreaded rust

Before you remove the wing, raise the front wheel and remove it. Then, remove the plastic wheel arch liner (various M5 screws) and this will give you a good view of the inside of the wing panel.

It may not be perforated from the rear, but you'll be able to see.

Alternative would be to extract the headlamp (3 screws) and then use a mirror to look inside the wing.

 

 

 

 

 

markhowes
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Re: Dreaded rust

Thanks all.

I'll give the "remove the front wheel and plastic wheel arch liner" route a go tomorrow.

I did remove the headlamp but it sits in a cowl which prevents sight of inside of wing.

g wagon g
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Re: Dreaded rust

You did not have to remove headlamp

​Just remove the 3 or 4 screws holding headlight bowl/cowl in place and look in with a torch. This will let you view inside wing easily


I think it might be all good inside , even round trims etc etc


Let us know what you find

prwales
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Re: Dreaded rust

Am I missing something here, I don't have any rust on my w463 bar an insignificant hint on the rear seams, I don't  have it on my front wings and have never seen it on anyone else's w463, are talking w460

markhowes
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Re: Dreaded rust

You had me doubting my sanity there so I returned to removing the headlamp surround (can't really call the front and the back both a cowl. But the "cowl" at the rear of the headlamp doesn't remove I think it's either riveted or welded in place (pictures attached).

So then removed wheel and plastic wheel arch liner for good look at top front of wing.

The doomsayers were right - the rust is coming through from underneath. there's a strip about 50mm wide and 15cms long across the top on the wing.

I'm guessing that the correct solution is to remove the wing- how difficult that (for someone stupid, like me)? It looks like it's just nuts and bolts.

Anyone know how much a new wing would cost? 

Arnie
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Re: Dreaded rust

Sorry to hear that the metal is perforated through from behind. I think it may be worth finding out the cost of a new wing, as sometimes parts pricing is less than you may think (on some items, anyway). It would obviously then also save money on welding and patching. However, you may have additional cost for the two rubber strips unless you can salvage the existing oines and re-apply the double-sided 3M adhesive tape to them.

 

Actually, some prices in this 2015 thread:

http://www.gwoa.co.uk/content/front-wing

Euro 399 (incl. 20 % VAT)

(Might have gone up a bit in the last year or two.)

 

markhowes
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Re: Dreaded rust

Hmmm - MB has quoted £323 including VAT.

Then, assuming I can remove the existing and fit the new myself, there's the painting and, as you say, probably the rubber strip.

Think I'll pop down to my friendly welder and see what he says.

 

markhowes
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Re: Dreaded rust

Cut and weld it is then.

Ideally I'd like to remove the wing myself so I can take it to the welder minus the top of wing indicator to allow for a perfect respray and avoid probability of welder saying he can do the job with wing in place and me regretting a less than perfect job for ever after.

But just how easy is it to take the wing off (and then put it all back together again).

g wagon g
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Re: Dreaded rust

Bloody hell Mark you are worrying too much

Just unbolt it but be careful if there is any sealer and trim it carefully so you dont flex the wing on removal

Bring it to me i will tig it up and you will hardly need any filler. Just some epoxy primer. (amazing stuff)


Any good vehicle restorer or bodywork shop that knows their stuff will be able to do it mate

Seal the wing and fit back on car then paint on the car in case it needs blending in. No matter how good a paint match it wont match the rest unless you blow it in down the doors to hide the colour change no matter how slight


Also if you paint it off the car you are bound to scratch it when re fitting it

Hope that has put your worrying mind at rest

jhw.
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Re: Dreaded rust

prwales wrote:

Am I missing something here, I don't have any rust on my w463 bar an insignificant hint on the rear seams, I don't  have it on my front wings and have never seen it on anyone else's w463, are talking w460



You've never seen rust on a 463?

prwales
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Re: Dreaded rust

Nothing serious, some very slight showing in the rear seams, a wee bit around the rear near side shocker turret but nothing that concerns me. My car came originally from a Dr in Dorset but I've had it for most of its life in South Wales. We last had a Winter of sorts in 2011 the days we've had salt on the roads over the past 5 years is barely into double figures and given the near perpetual winter rains its washed off and away pretty sharply too. I'd would acknowledge that other areas are likely to be much worse off than mine in terms of salt corrosion but I've just not seen it on w463's that I've looked at.

scouse g
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Re: Dreaded rust

We live on an island surrounded by salt water

When it rains it probably has salt content

We throw salt on road in winter

Your car will take brunt of salt

As for your wing give the job to a local recommended garage or G wagon g or Ed China ! 

Bear in mind you have a 463 and you will be chasing rust ! 

prwales
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Re: Dreaded rust

Theres no salt in rain, sulphur dioxide and nitrous oxide in abundance but no sodium. If you live close to the coast it can be an issue if you face high seas and on shore winds. When it comes to winters not all areas are equal when it comes to salting the roads. It would need a series of Freedom of Information questions to councils to find out who spends and uses most but my best guess is that it's Scotland's East Coast, the Grampians and central Highlands, [Fort William] that spend most. 

I have sprayed black waxoyl on the underside of my w463 a couple of times, purely precautionary; but based on my rusty experiences with a couple of w460's. So unless you have done this take my comments with a pinch of saltdevil

Nick Norris
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Re: Dreaded rust

Yep... we're pretty salty here on the Morvern peninsula, opposite Mull, an hour and a half west of Fort Bill.

I've just blasted ze 1988 SWB 460 inside and out  with yet more Waxoyl and we're still rolling along and looking shiny.

Do we need so much salt on the roads?

It must cost a lot only to have it washed away by the inevitable rain.

I have it in my head that Scandinavia doesn't get anywhere near as salty.

Hmmm...

scouse g
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Re: Dreaded rust

Nick Norris wrote:

Yep... we're pretty salty here on the Morvern peninsula, opposite Mull, an hour and a half west of Fort Bill.

I've just blasted ze 1988 SWB 460 inside and out  with yet more Waxoyl and we're still rolling along and looking shiny.

Do we need so much salt on the roads?

It must cost a lot only to have it washed away by the inevitable rain.

I have it in my head that Scandinavia doesn't get anywhere near as salty.

Hmmm...

Here too 

Get a windy Westerly day on Merseyside and your guaranteed salt shite everywhere Inc North Wales west Lancashire etc 

 

I left a customers defender by the beach for a few days.,,,

markhowes
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Re: Dreaded rust

Wing now removed.

Who would have thought there would be so many nuts, bolts and screws (not to mention bits of trim, lighting connectors, etc. etc.

Glad I've done it though - it's off to be cut, welded and painted tomorrow.

 

JASONGDS
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Re: Dreaded rust

You can buy aerosols of Dinitrol on eBay strongly recommend you buy a few and touch up bits of chassis especially around front Spring mounts and rears, spray the brown one ,on rusty stuff , black on good sound metal, not cheap but rust isn't!

prwales
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Re: Dreaded rust

that's very good advice

scouse g
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Re: Dreaded rust

Well done ! 

I could send you a Jim'll fix it badge but some kids maybe offended on here !

markhowes
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Re: Dreaded rust

Ha! - I'll save my claim for brownie points until after I find out if I can remember how it all goes back together again.

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Re: Dreaded rust

What i think is the worst part on a G is around the side windows. Both front and rear. It is hard to get to both sides since it is on the edge of metal.. I`ll go with some Fluid Film. Or sanding it, some rust fluid, primer and paint. But do anyone know if it is possible to buy new door shell to 2006 W463? I am talking maybe 5-7 years ahead, but still interesting to know if it is possible :) 

 

Interesting thread i think, since rust is the worst enemy to a car. Not parts breaking from time to time. 

Arnie
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Re: Dreaded rust

With MB, I am sure you will be able to buy all parts, including door shell for at least 20 years after the model ceases production.

However, I have never seen any significant rust on the doors. 

if you want to keep your G rust free, wash thoroughly after winter and use waxoyl or similar on the chassis and underbody and also in the door cavities.

 

 

astrisjuls
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Re: Dreaded rust

I live i Norway, so we wash all year long :) We use something called Fluid Film. It is sheep wool oil. In a way. It never dries, and it penetrates really well. Still i see some tiny parts of rust at the bottom of the windows. Where the rubber seal is. Actually i want to change them, but i think i have to take out the windows to do the job.. 

 

Good to know one can buy f.ex doors, if needed. Guess they cost some money, but it might be worth it in the future! 

Arnie
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Re: Dreaded rust

If you are referring to the rubber strips at the bottom of each window, these do rust because they have metal clip inserts in the rubber molding, which are exposed. The metal clips may also damage the paint slightly on the door panel where they attach, and this can promote rust.


I think they can be replaced without removing the glass, but if you remove the glass, you can ope-up the clips and remove them without further scratching. Removing the interior  door panel may provide enough room to do this with long pliers, and the glass wound all the way down.

 

astrisjuls
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Re: Dreaded rust

Thank you! I have a friend working on these cars on daily basis, maybe he can help me out with the door panels and maybe the window. I always try to do things before they become something permanent.. 

 

So removing the old ones, and buying these rubber bands new is a possibility :) Maybe sand down the exposed parts, have some primer, paint, clear coat and maybe some waxoyl or similar will do it!