W460 280GE auto - Starter motor full of engine oil
Took an unusually long spin of circa 300 miles, in an '84 280GE, noticed a severe engine oil leak when refueling, couldn't pinpoint source in darkness, added 2L to 3L engine oil and slowly limped back to base. No further loss of engine oil however could not start the following morning with symptoms of a starter solenoid issue. The starter motor itself was full of engine oil when removed – does this mean I have a main rear seal failure :( ?
Took an unusually long spin of circa 300 miles, in an '84 280GE, noticed a severe engine oil leak when refueling, couldn't pinpoint source in darkness, added 2L to 3L engine oil and slowly limped back to base. No further loss of engine oil however could not start the following morning with symptoms of a starter solenoid issue. The starter motor itself was full of engine oil when removed – does this mean I have a main rear seal failure :( ?
Yes rear crankshaft oil seal.
I am not too sure of that. If the rear crank seal is leaking how did the oil get into the solenoid? This is externally mounted and you could say mounted on top of the starter. I can not imagine oil to travel up wards it should fall downwards in which case a rear crank seal should show oil drops directly under the bell housing.
Now oil contamination at the solenoid would indicate to me oil leaking from the rocker cover seal and draining down on the side of the block over the starter through the drain holes machined on the side from the Spark Plug well. OR a head leaking which is usually indicated by a leak tracing at the back of No: 6 cylinder on the off side.
Resolve is to have the engine steam cleaned, check and take mental note of oil level and check over time and against mileage traveled. Keep a look out at the area I mentioned for traces of oil leak.
I expect the oil loss to be in small quantities.
As you state it is the starter motor body with oil in which case I concur that the rear crank seal oil leak is the culprit here.
Oil seal repair additive to reduce oil leak in this case will not have effect as the rear crank seal is not of a lip design where repair additives could reduce or cure the oil leak. In my opinion there is a 50:50 chance of getting a cure with additives.
The way these work on lip seals is to make the lip material more supple to regain sealing to be effective that is if the seal leak is due to hardening of the lip. If it is a case where the seal is damaged due to the lip being ripped or cracked then the additive would make the condition worse as it would not cure a tear.
Now going back to your rear crank seal; this is a rope type seal (not sure if these had been changed to a conventional lip seal) and a repair additive would have no effect to this seal. Replacement is the only cure and in order to replace this seal which comes in two halves; to replace the top half which sits above the crankshaft, the crankshaft has to be dropped low enough or totally out of the way to fit the seal which has to be lightly tapped or hammered in position.
Oil collect in your starter motor would have taken time to fill up so after a draining and clean up you should have service of the starter for quite a while.
By the way it was not me suggesting oil seal repair additive.
Check the rocker cover breather for proper venting into the induction system as blockage here could cause higher crankcase pressure.
As you state it is the starter motor body with oil in which case I concur that the rear crank seal oil leak is the culprit here.
Oil seal repair additive to reduce oil leak in this case will not have effect as the rear crank seal is not of a lip design where repair additives could reduce or cure the oil leak. In my opinion there is a 50:50 chance of getting a cure with additives.
The way these work on lip seals is to make the lip material more supple to regain sealing to be effective that is if the seal leak is due to hardening of the lip. If it is a case where the seal is damaged due to the lip being ripped or cracked then the additive would make the condition worse as it would not cure a tear.
Now going back to your rear crank seal; this is a rope type seal (not sure if these had been changed to a conventional lip seal) and a repair additive would have no effect to this seal. Replacement is the only cure and in order to replace this seal which comes in two halves; to replace the top half which sits above the crankshaft, the crankshaft has to be dropped low enough or totally out of the way to fit the seal which has to be lightly tapped or hammered in position.
Oil collect in your starter motor would have taken time to fill up so after a draining and clean up you should have service of the starter for quite a while.
By the way it was not me suggesting oil seal repair additive.
Check the rocker cover breather for proper venting into the induction system as blockage here could cause higher crankcase pressure.
Had this on a few, it's the rear crank oil seal like I said, OP didn't say anything about oil in solenoid.
It can fill the starter within a short run and hydraulically lock it so to speak, pointless trying to get any service of the car till its sorted.
You are correct a additive will be hopeless on the rope seal.
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Thanks jwh and Pistonhead for the info,
The starter motor main body with the rotor and windings was actually full of engine oil as opposed to the solenoid, so the oil entered the starter from the started drive bracket where the gear/pinion engages with the flywheel?. I guess the flywheel housing is part full with engine oil. Unfortunately jwh's diagnosis my be on target. However I may action as you suggest Pistonhead and drain, clean and refill with an seal repair additive and monitor closely as you because and engine overhaul or conversion is an option at the moment. I have a reconditioned starter motor.
Is there anything thing else I could do to reduce the oil pressure on the seal in addition to use of seal repair additive, mineral oil and not overfilling! i.e. is there oil pressure release which somewhere which could be blocked?
Thanks for the feedback,