Clutch advice please
Hi all,
G wagon clutch advice please. I have a 1989 SWB 300GD G wagon with a TB turbo engine. I bought it 4 years ago and at the time I bought it I was told that it had been been fitted with a new clutch by the salesman. 6000 miles (2 years) later the clutch failed on the vehicle and I was advised by the same salesman then to have the previous owner of the vehicle repair it as he is a G-wagon mechanic.
The previous owner then fitted another clutch to it at a cost of £580 . (I didn't ask to examine the old clutch, no paperwork & a cash payment) The guy seemed honest enough and I took his word that he done the work as verbally described.
My clutch has now failed again after 4000 miles.
It has failed with the same symptoms as last time. It intermittantly will not go in or out of gear, and although the clutch seems to operate ok with my foot the car keeps moving when the clutch is depressed. Lots of pumping of the clutch seems to resolve the issue and there has been no loss of clutch fluid.
I am not mechanically minded but I remember the previous owner/mechanic telling me that he fitted a second hand pressure plate to the vehicle with the second clutch because it would be a mutch better job. I got the impression at the time that this was a good thing to do and that I was very lucky that he was able to supply and fit this.
The vehicle has not used for towing since the new clutch was fitted and I have never had to put a clutch in any car I have ever owned in 22 years of driving.
My questions to the members of the GWOA are;
Is it common for these vehicles to need a new clutch every 5000 miles?
Does anyone know of a good/honest mechanic based in Northern Ireland who could look at the truck?
Are there any specialist G wagon scrap dealers who might be interested in purchasing the truck as is?
Regards & Thanks in advance,
Colm
Internal seal failure in the master cylinder or slave cylinder could be the cause rather than the clutch, if it is either of those its a cheap enough repair
Hello Colm,
I am sorry to learn that you have been duped in this manner. I would approach the same mechanic and ask him to re-do the job but asking for the old spares back or if you can ask for your money back.
Assuming that route is going no where, have the clutch fitted by some one by recommendation from this club, I am sure names will be put forward.
In answer to some of your questions, No it is not normal for clutches to fail so soon; even if you are towing.
If your vehicle will manage the following test: Making sure you have a lot of clear space in front of and the rear of vehicle, apply the hand brake and ball and heel the foot pedal to apply the foot brake and keep the engine revved to about 1500 rpm. Obviously depressing the clutch pedal, select fifth gear then leave the clutch pedal suddenly. If the engine stalls, the clutch is fine, if the engine continues to run or seemly run before cutting out, the clutch has failed.
It would appear from what you have described; I suspect that you clutch main cylinder is and, or clutch cylinder is failing.
Comment on a second hand clutch can never do a better job compared to a newly fitted one or certainly will not have the same service life.
Where in Ireland are you?
If you have to renew the clutch, get a report of the fly wheel surface, if it is deeply scorred consider to have its face machined, material allowing or else you are looking at another or new flywheel. Furnish your chassis number and we can give you the correct part numbers for your vehicle, ask to see the box of the supplied parts and have this compared to numbers we supply.
If you want to scrap the vehicle, what are you looking for it?
A member in mind is fixwin38; he lives 45 miles west of Belfast and wil be in touch with you.
Hi Colm
Assuming the truck is still running the standard OM617.931 engine albeit with a bolt on Turbo conversion, with Getrag Manual 5 speed Gearbox and the Clutch etc has not been messed with then part numbers as follows...
Clutch Pressure Plate
A003 250 91 04 £123 + vat
Clutch Friction Disc
A018 250 89 03 £112 + vat
Clutch Release Bearing
A000 250 51 15 £30.30 if available or superceeds to A003 250 53 15 £110 + vat
Flywheel
A617 030 01 05 £485 + vat
Clutch Slave Cylinder
A001 295 51 07 £93.50 + vat
Clutch Slave Repair Kit
A000 290 43 67 £29 + vat
Clutch Master Cylinder
A001 295 82 06 £149 + vat
Clutch Master Cylinder Repair Kit
A000 290 22 12 £No Longer Available
Clutch Flexy Pipe
A460 295 05 13 £36.50 + vat
All prices are current retail and available from MB Germany
Hope it helps in some way
Gav
I can understand the reasoning behind the cylinder failure theory except, if that was the fault last time how has it lasted 4000 miles.
Or are we saying that last time might have been the clutch at fault and this time the cylinders?
If they were at fault first time then surely a new clutch would not have cured it for that amount of miles?
There is also a flexy hose in between the two cylinder that could bulge?
Or oil contamination from a leaking rear main seal?
Have you had a look inside the Bell Housing through the inspection cover if it has one to see what its like in there?
Gav
clutch release arm could be broken /or cracked in half /or the thrust bearing has worn through the pressure plate 'petals'
the clutch feels ok but it does not release totally/ gavs point about the flexible clutch line ballooning is also a good theory/check the hydraulics operation thoroughly and then proceed to the mechanical elements .
also try placing gentle pressure on the clutch pedal with your foot for some time and see if the pedal gently sinks as the master or slave cylinder seals allow fluid to bypass.
Hi Gav,
That is one comprehensive list of parts. Thank you for taking the time and effort to compile same. The truck is heading to the mechanics tomorrow for diagnosis though it is second in line to the tractor which is not starting and which takes priority as I have an overflowing spreader of horse manure which needs emptied. I will probably be in touch with engine and chassis numbers looking for advice on which parts to order and how to persuade MB in either Bush or Portadown to order them from Germany for me :) I will pass on everyones comments/suggestions to the mechanic.
Regards,
Colm
Hi Forum,
My clutch failure has now been updated to a master clutch cylinder failure by our mechanic which is very much in line with what everyone who posted their advice thought.
Gav,
Had a look at my engine this evening and I see that the engine number starts with 617.912 not 617.931 as you said in your post. The gearbox is a 5 speed manual and I believe the turbo is just bolted on to it as you said. The VIN is WDB46033227066252. It’s a SWB RHD 300GD. You quoted me part number A001 295 82 06 for the master cylinder.....
Is there a difference in this part for RHD and LHD G Wagons or do I just go to either Mercedes-Benz Truck & Van (NI) or Agnews in Portadown with that part number and try to persuade one of them to order it for me from Germany?
Regards,
Colm
Hi
OK, so its had an engine swop
The G version OM617's are all OM617.931
The OM617.912 is from a car, the W123 series 300D
Same basic engine....nearly and obviously can be adapted to fit
In theory this should not affect the Master Cylinder type as it is mounted behind the pedals.
Easy way to check i guess and be sure on a 25 year old truck that has obviously been messed with is to get the Cylinder off.
99% of them will have the part number down the side
MBUK have one in stock but no dealers are showing it
Hope that helps
Gav
Nearly all RHD 460 series had the same Master Cylinder, Petrol or Diesel
The LHD ones are different
Once you have established that the number is right off the Cylinder
I am sure they will order you one up
Gav
try euro car parts
Hi all,
Just my luck no part number on it. It just says on it FAG and S 5267on the other side. Eurocar parts have none in stock online and their advertised phone number has changed and their new phone number cuts you off when its your turn for a sales assistant. Brakes International were very helpful, took my details tried their suppliers and duely phoned me back to say they cannot supply any more. Was advised that a 89-95 T1 308 van one would fit but not sure which one advertised to order. Agnews in Portadown when quoted Gavs part number said theres one in England and they can have it for me in a few days at £149 + VAT so I will order Monday as I did not have my credit card to hand and its as case of pay up front and no returns.
Thanks to all who contacted me and replied to the post.
Regards,
Colm
Hi Colm
Strange it does not have a number on, but it may not be the original or even the correct one fitted?
MB T1 Van number is A001 295 86 06
I reckon that they are very similar but dont know if it will fit?
I think that the G one has the Slave Cylinder Pipe coming from up underneath and from memory the T1 one has the pipe coming straight in the end? Not sure if this is the only difference or if you could get around that?
Gav
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Hi Rakesh,
Thank you for your swift and comprehensive post. I followed your instruction and the truck is indeed stalling with 5th gear selected, the engine revved and both footbrake and handbrake applied. I am encouraged by yourself and PRWALES suggestions that it could be the either of the clutch cylinders.
The reason I am encouraged is because our G-Wagen mechanic is now in his 70's and would not be physically able for a gearbox removal as part of any repair. Clutch Cylinders are well within his remit however. I have found it hard to get a local mechanic to work on the truck and have had some bad experiences. We have one excellent mechanic who services our lexus and land cruiser but won't touch the G Wagen!
I am based in Co Tyrone and I know fixwin quite well already.
Don't know what the value of it would be either with or without an intermittent problem with the transmission. Maybe other forum members might know. I paid £5500 for it 4 years ago but I know I was totally ripped off. It was supposed to have been completely restored but the rust started showing through the paint a few months after i bought it and it has given me nothing but bother since. The only thing about it is that anything that did give bother was fixed and fixed right, its just that I am getting very frustrated having such an unreliable vehicle which is so costly to maintain whenever you can get someone to maintain it.
I think the way to proceed now is to get it to the mechanic and tell him that the experts think its the clutch cylinder and see if he can fully diagnose the issue from there.
I will keep you informed of my progress!
Thanks,
Colm