E300 Engine Conversion
You have to ask a number of questions - is yr 463 petrol or diesel ?
Manual or Auto ?
diesel manual to diesel 606 easiest ,then petrol manual then diesel auto with petrol auto causing the most issues.
Best transmission is 6 speed with ML clutch and flywheel
Auto is 'A' levels and requires a standalone controller from Olafyer in Denmark to use E300 5 speed box with .81 top gear
Injection pump is expensive - ebay from usa for donor mech. pump and then a very good Bosch man to to transfer the guts of the 606 pump into it AND set it up [ have only found one in uk and one in holland competant to do this]
Allow a good £1000 for each of the above items - HOWEVER -this is just the start ,esp on a 463 with doable but demanding intercooler install [yet another £1000 quite quickly]
It is simply the technical hours [and knowledge] needed to convert the heater cooling engine pipes etc etc etc , not to mention the sourcing of the correct MB parts [eg sump] needed if you wish to preserve oil pressure offroad.
By far the cheapest item is a good 125,000 miler E300 at around £500 from Gumtree
Axel , club member in Somerset , does this work to a high standard [10+ conversions]
Gordon ,in Lancashire , is also knowledgeable about this work.
I have not been impressed with other attempts.
COST ?? Allow £10k to include wipers/heater and other gremlins always found
are you sure he means the taxi engine, he might want the om103 3 litre petrol which is much more fuel efficient than the 280 and has better torque and bhp too
if all taxis are diesels all diesels must be, [as well as smelly and unable to rev] taxis
a tautology
Is it, the question was about an e300, that can mean many different things but ordinarily it denotes a petrol engined w124, until the poster makes that clear you aren't entitled to make the comments you make. Switching to a 3 litre petrol makes a huge amount of sense and can be achieved much more economically irrespective of being auto or manual than a change of fuel with all that entails. If the poster wants to retain the high revving engine characteristics of the ge280 in a more modern format the om104 3 litre 24 valve that also uses Bosch mechanical fuel injection is another consideration though quite rare now. If I were considering these as options I would expect to achieve either one at fraction of the cost of a 606 or a 606a conversion.
Really? .....Are you for real? .....and again, really?
Why on earth would anyone go to the trouble of taking a pile of crap out to put another pile of crap in its place. Have you ever changed an engine? Even a like for like change in a car, probably not! If you had you wouldn't put your idiotic posts up because you would know how much time and effort is involved. Does your expertise extend beyond your keyboard... And that is a serious question. What is your background? that makes you such an "expert"
........And so returning back to the original members post............. The best advice is from Mr Brugger. while a replacement engine (be it diesel or petrol) is a great way to extend the life of your G, I would heed the advice of Tony.
There are a number of people out there that will happily take your money and then give you a veritable worse off conversion, its something not to be taken lightly. Over the past few years I have seen and heard of so many poor conversions that it has done two things. 1) cost a fortune for the poor member and 2) turned them off G Wagens for life.
Despite the honorable members from both Wales and Lancashire discussions, entwined in the posts are some key points that are also worth considering.
Do let us know how your getting on and what you may decide.
Spider1V
your remarks are intemperate
Thought as much, self appointed keyboard professor.
PXW why do you refer to the OM103 petrol engine as a pile of crap?
Most of the members on this site running older 463 models have this engine and most of us will be approaching the 200,000 mile mark and still going strong.
I appreciate the turbo diesels are a good alternative but at around £10k for a conversion most of us are quite happy to stick to our old faithful straight sixes and live with the fuel consumption.
In fairness to prwales the OP didn't specify which engine he wanted to swap out of the E300 so why did you feel the need to jump down his throat when he mentioned petrol, that wasn't very friendly.
In the circumstances there is nothing wrong with swapping a clapped out 280 petrol for a latter 3.0 litre model if you have limited funds and want an easy swap to keep you on the road, lots of people have done it.
Well as some one who had a 280 (460) and now has a 300 (petrol 463)... I can say the 280 drank more than all my Irish relatives put together ( there is a lot of them) !!!!
My 300 is great and I love it . Yes it uses fuel but no where near as much. Saying that I would not want to tow a heavy trailer any distance with it.
So I guess what I am saying is some people like a diesel some like a petrol some don't care and for some only 8 cylinders will do ( cough spider cough)...
Think about why you want to do to change it work out what it will cost and see if its cheaper to sell the 280 and put the money towards a newer one that would suite your needs better.
Gents
Can I please ask you to take this off line and continue your dicussions though PM's.
Many thanks
Thats a nasty cough you have there Lenny. BTW was that G the one I test drove for you?
Spider1V
wow lot of catch up reading there. To answer a few questions I do not mind petrol or diesel, but rather I think this decision is based on a) cost and b) power increase. I drive mainly short journeys around town so need something that accelerates from standstill slightly better and has a bit more torque. More to the point if a diesel conversion is close to £10k this is impossible territory for me.
Has anyone here converted to 300 petrol in a 460? Interested to see what the verdict is (cost of conversion and power increase).
Many older conversions of 460s have tended to be to V8s, but this makes for an even thirstier car than the 280. I would source a decent w124 3 litre saloon to use as parts supplier, almost all of these are autos but it will mate to a 5 speed box if yours is a manual, This should cost in the region of £500. Without the cat it will give you 188 bhp and 192 ft lbs of torque.Talk to you local Merc specialist about the cost of fitting but I'd expect change from £2k and there shouldn't be many fitting issues as this engine went in the w463 and you can retain fuel pumps and accumulator. The 3 litre engine is smooth and powerful so check out its condition before you buy but there are plenty out there at bargain basement prices, one word of warning though and born of my experience with the w124 is that you may find you like driving it a lot more than the G and decide not to bother with the conversion
Spider I get a cough this time of year, as I am too young for the flu jab and 500 insurance..!!
My 300 is the one that you test drove for me a flue years back. Its only let me down once........shut up.........I readdressed the land rover G wagen balance..
Tee you say you do most of your driving around town, so you will use the same amount of fuel if you went petrol or diesel. To me I would not say its worth the bother as you know your car. You could go and get an engine that mite work for a while and the next thing you know it all goes wrong.. I do know some one who put a 300 petrol from a 124 in a lwb 463 and he has had a lot of problems as the person who put in did not do a good job!!!
If I was you I would leave the G as she is, and take the money you are thinking of spending on engine swap and go a get a mark 2 Golf gti, to use as a run around and have the G for days that you need a smile..
ps look on the bright side a mate of mine has just been told his Porsche cayenne engine need a rebuild, when he asked how mush he was told he mite see some change out of 9k..!!!!!
so the consensus of opiinion is fit a V8 or buy a Golf because the petrol is too expensive to run
PRICELESS
LOL You guys, you just crack me up. 
At the end of the day its all about personal choices. OK So I could afford a second home in Cap don Antibes, at least three mistress' and a smaller overdraft. However I chose to drive a petrol V8 as (for those lucky/stupid enough to have them) when you get in and are cosseted by the leather, snuggled by the heated, lumbar supported seats. You look down at the binnical and just next to the speedo there is a little graph that measures the Richter scale, its fun just as you turn the key, in the split second before the V8 roar's into life, to notice all the birds fly out of the trees, rat's, cats and dogs run around howling and thejn at that point small fury animals are sucked into the air intake, the very air is torn apart as man and machine thumbs its nose to the elements and the single thought that runs through your mind is ' OK world.................I AM READY!'
But the best bit........When one is at around 70 MPH - those driving diesels that's the bit about 10 mph after yours reach Max speed - and one floors the accelerator to watch the rev counter spin around and begin to climb towards that magical figure of 7000 RPM (that's about 2,500 more than your diesle's) at the same time feel 2.5 tonnes squat down and power forward, climbing to the magical three digit number. While doing so noticing all the other 'lesser mortals' gawp in utter amazement as one begins to out haul them.
To me that is worth the 2-3 MPG less one gets against the diesels....
Spider1V
I bet piggys v8 went well, and would have beter mpg..
I was surprised to read that the M103 petrol engine was "crap" .Were all the 103's engines like this or just the one in the G?
It seems about 800,000 were made but have never read anything about it being an awfull engine just about the normal things that go wrong at 200,000 miles plus. Very popular in the USA but even they dont seem to slate it in their forums.
Just interested as I have been tempted by a 463 GES (manual).
Well Joe, good for you, doesn't really answer Tee's question though does it?
You are a bit of a stuck record. just one question, if you found someone to take your G off your hands (unlikely) would you buy a newer V8 petrol?
Gordon
it's a decent engine with more power than the the 606a and more power and torque than the naturally aspirated 606, our friend has an interest in diesel conversions so his views are not neutral
Will I am no expert but if the petrol engine kicks out around 177 to 188 hp and the diesel one kicks out around 134 to 174 hp......
The 103.980 engine (181 in.³ or 2960 cm³) produces 177 hp or 132 kW at 5700 rpm (with catalyst), 188 hp or 138 kW at 5700 rpm (without catalyst), and has a torque of 188 ft·lbf or 255 N·m at 4400 rpm (with catalyst), 191 ft·lbf or 260 N·m at 4400 rpm (without catalyst). It uses the CIS-E (Continuous Injection System - Electronic) and has a bore of 88.5 mm (3.48 in) and a stroke of 80.2 mm (3.16 in). The compression ratio is 9.2 : 1 with a redline of 6550 rpm in 1987 and 6200 rpm from 1988 on. The firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4. Lubrication system is pressure circulation lubrication system. Amount of oil in engine is 6.0 litres and amount of coolant is 8.5 litres. Number of valves is 1 intake, 1 exhaust with V-shaped overhead configuration. Valve operation was 1 top camshaft. Camshaft drive was simple roller-type chain. Starter motor is electrical with 1.5 kW; since 01.88 was 1.7 kW. Ignition system is electronic ignition system. Recommended fuel octane for the M103 is 91 RON/MON (96 RON)(86 MON). This engine can be found in the W124 E-Class, W126 S-Class Mercedes-Benz R129, W463 G-Class and the R107.
ID DIN-rated max. motive power
at rpm max. torque
at rpm aspiration years applications
OM 606.910 100 kW (136 PS; 134 hp) @5000 rpm 210 N·m (155 lb·ft) @2200 rpm Natural 1993–1996 W124 E 300 D
OM 606.912 ERE 100 kW (136 PS; 134 hp) @5000 rpm 210 N·m (155 lb·ft) @2200 rpm Natural 1995–1997 W210 E 300 D
OM 606.961 ERE 130 kW (177 PS; 174 hp) @4400 rpm 330 N·m (243 lb·ft) @1600 rpm Turbocharger, intercooler 1997–1999 W140 S 300 Turbodiesel
OM 606.962 ERE 130 kW (177 PS; 174 hp) @4400 rpm 330 N·m (243 lb·ft) @1600 rpm Turbocharger, intercooler 1997–1999 W210 E 300 Turbodiesel
OM 606.964 ERE 130 kW (177 PS; 174 hp) @4400 rpm 330 N·m (243 lb·ft) @1600 rpm Turbocharger, intercooler 1997–2001 W461 G 300 Turbodiesel
Discuss your preferences but please refrain from insulting comments.
I have just found a 606 with 500 horses.....http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=24afjVqm2Uw
very nice but a very expensive proposition, there are turbo charging options for the 103 engine too by Turbo Technics and Mosselman also costly but not as pricey
. So back to my question - if the price was the same for petrol or slightly cheaper would you transplant the engine in your Griffith to your G? Sure in a press release for the 300GE that in G form it puts out a 150 ilb ft at 1500, which seems pretty good at those revs,then rising to 180 ish at 4000rpm?
Griff engine in a G? never in a million years, The rover V8 is 50 year old tech and only 280 hp for 5Litre, greedy as anything
and only works in a Griff because its very light and I don't use it much. as a daily drive at less than 20 MPG? no way.
I don't care about your V8 and its hot air module and the made up MPG, Tee asked a question about engine transplants and all the usual trolls have hijacked the thread as usual banging on about how good their petrols are.... because they have them, given an amount of cash would the trolls choose a petrol to buy now over an equal diesel,, I think not.
I and I suspect many others are getting fed up with your rude and self serving abuse, the forums moderators might well consider giving you a time out to learn some manners
Really, because i don't like trolls in particularly YOU you hijacking every conversation like only your opinion counts!
And you still haven't answered my question, what is your technical ability/experience? I await a reply with interest.
Being rude and insulting won't get you anywhere.. We don't look at ihe forum to read this kind of abuse, we look at it to learn things about G Wagens.
If you are going to continue lin this manner, take it off the main forum, members don't need it. And it's not for the first time either
wtf.....!!!
its as if a landrover owner has entered the thread....
you guys need better weather to cheer you up. man, c'mon. positive inputs please.
rgds to all
hus
Ahhhhh. My eyes. I'm off
Ok to put things in perspective although mpg is important, I won't base my decision on it. As mentioned cost of conversion and power increase are key, hence whether it's petrol, diesel or lucozade doesn't really make a mad difference. I drive a Cadillac around most days so am not hugely phased. V8 has given me ideas... Tell me more Spider... Oh and I'm not buying a Golf lol
I love how this thread has turned very mpg related when I've never mentioned economy once!!
Now now girls , can we cut to the chase and resume normal service plse -
Tee asked about 606 conversions - its NOT about horse power but about torque , a correctly installed and set up diesel will produce a large amount of torque from low down in the rev range to propel the 2.6 ton 4x4 G with all its power train power losses AMAZINGLY well and give wonderful 'driveability' and acceleration combined with sensible rpm on the motorway at 90+mph AND 25mpg.
He also asks if there is a cheaper alternative to the expensive 'Axel' type 606 job - As many of you know I am a fan of the 2.9 5 cylinder musso 662 variant.
This can be installed without pump modification and turbo flange work and using 'off the shelf ' MB parts [thx Gav !] It will still cost plenty in time and money to get a good result.Also 662 turbo engines are getting harder to find while there are still plenty of E300's about.
As I have said to members before , come to Somerset ,drive the converted vehicles and make up your own mind .
Tony,
What good sound honest advice and I can only reiterate to others thinking of a conversion to take a trip to ‘Cider Land’ and see for yourself the build quality that has gone into some of these G conversions as per my post ‘A Truly Holy Experience……God lives in Somerset’……. posted 25th November ,following my visit to Mike on the way back from Plymouth.
Like Tee I too have been thinking of a conversion for my 300GE although fast enough and still running great after 161k my needs are an everyday driver for the wife and dogs with fantastic fuel economy. Hopefully, I will be heading back to Somerset soon (working in Reading) and I would love to talk to you and Mike (and be taken for a spin) about your SsangYong 662 engine as I already have the feelers out trying to get one of these as an option.
Additionally, I should be working in Preston soon and am going to arrange a visit to Gordon in Blackpool. Sorry Hus I don’t think I’d get away with a couple of days in Cyprus just before Christmas. Please tell Aphrodite I’ll be back J
My advice to anyone thinking of a conversion would be to talk to the experts as there is so much that goes into a proper conversion (as per Gordon’s initial list). I am a complete novice on any engines but now fully understanding most things that need to be done and why. I was kindly given a hands on touchy feely demonstration of all the changes needed that were needed by Mike. I have also seen other posts on different 4x4 forums of some really basic conversions that will give their owners lots of expense, grief and not the end result they were after.
However, there has been lots of interesting points made on this thread and I have noticed how that replies lead to different trains of thought…..In fact my last post the thread changed several directions….
The first from SeanD463 mentioned a Boy Band being formed in Somerset which didn’t go too far. I think he just fancied himself and the GWOA’s Louis Walsh J
The second digression was when I asked about the benefits of AGA v Rayburn v ESSE and to my astonishment the most concise and articulate answer had to go to Mr Spider who came back with by far the most touching, sensible, economic and invigorating reply….to the extent that I now have deployed a wood burning Rayburn 355SF that gives a return of 2 Paella’s, 3 chickens, 8 jacket spuds, 44 kettle loads and 14 bathes per 200 litre tank/basket of seasoned oak……………Every time a spider crawls from the pile of logs I think of Joes sound advice…..
Anyway now off to pick my G up as I am having a new window screen fitted as there was some light surface rust when the old one came out (Well Gav H said he’d seen worse !) At least the white leather seats will not get wet now winter is coming…..
May I be the first to wish you all a Merry Christmas.
Hopefully catch up with a few of you before whilst on my travels Mike/Tony/Gordon/Gav/Mr S
Thanks Norfolk66
Very interesting thread, but as others have said, perhaps a bit intemperate in places. Not really in the G spirit methinks. Just MHO.
Found a SL 129 5.0 V8 and have been told by a Mercedes breakers that the fit should be fairly straightforward. Anyone shed some light on this...
I have not heard or seen this done just earlier M117 units, do you know how old the engine is and does it come with all ancilliaries, post 92 engines had motronic injection complete with crumbly engine wiring looms so get an early ke jet one if you can, the earlier ones had marginaly more power too
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/archive/index.php/t-64731.html
I seem to recall a similar discussion with someone who knew their M's as it were. Upshot, iirc was that M117's are possible but not M119's. I can't remember why. This information carries a memory warning!!
Out of interest, what sort of mpg does a 300GE return?
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