G Wagons... Old v. New

With pleasure,

1) Permanent 4wd
2) ABS
3) No vibrations whatsoever. I thought that my old W460 300 GD was good in this field, until I drove my W463 300 GD for the first time and realised that the other one was more like a tractor
4) Generally better performance for equivalent versions
5) Car-like interior. You can have a interior resembling that of your 500 SEL in a GWagen
6) Central locking. and a rev counter. YES! and loads more of the equipment that you would expect in anythin gother than a 2CV, like electric windows. Besides, most come with many other things which are rarely seen in a W460, like aircon.

Don't get me wrong.... I still loved my old W460 to bits and I agree with you that the current GWagen range is too far away of what the GWagen was designed for. But I believe that an early- to mid nineties W463 G-Wagen offer the best compromise of ruggedness and modern, every day usability.

Once thing is for sure, I like taking my Gs off road and this is only economically viable if you own a 460 or early 463. It would be painly stupid to ruin a factory paintjob on a £40k-plus car by taking it through the narrow lanes that off roading is about in old Europe.

A different proposition would be I guess to use the power of a G500 to the full driving on dunes in the dessert in Dubai, but that is beyond my financial muscle.

Cheers,

If you're happy with your 460s then stick with them I say!

But if you've got two Gs why not make one a 463. That way you have the best of both worlds.

Jesus forgot to mention the electronic diff locks - though that may be more problem then they're worth if the electronics ever fail... plus its just got that much more development time under its belt for refining the overall package.

But the 463 is great for long journeys and mine is old enough that I am not too fussed with taking it off-road.

As for the older mercs being built better, I think that is why a lot of the Americans prefer pre-1999 (old of a different sort!) to the newer daimler-chrysler Gs and their over dependence on unreliable electronics.

Well, as i'm still G less, any model will do.. My choice model though, is any of the G300TD's, from 96>00. Not fussy about the year. Next choice would be a 461 G290TD, although i suppose the G270CDI "worker" would be the most ideal for me, but god knows where you'll find a secound hand one of those.

I've gotta say, i don't 100% follow the fall in Merc quality theory as far as engines and drivetrains go, sure latter models do seem to have there problems, but there mainly electrical.

And Tom, come on argue why one shouldn't buy a 461 over a 460.... other than cost.

lol,, oh mate, tell me about it!... :lol:

Patience is a err,, err,, pain in the butt :lol:

One day, one day soon i hope..

Now thats a hard question for a Mercedes enthusiast. Barring the W140 S class, theres not a Merc that i don't thing is gorgeous. I suppose traditionally though, Mercs could never be described as pretty, current Mercs are pretty & gorgeous, and yes,, classy too.. ( excuding the proposed new G :lol: )

Well we certainly agree on old Mercs, i haven't got a bad word for them, cars, trucks and the humble white van, Mercs ruled, no question.
When you say, "the current crop are awful", are you refering to build quality, looks, or both. I agree, Mercedes have dropped a huge clanger over the complexity of electrics and also cutting cost's of those elecrics, but i believe there current engines/ drivetrain to still be true Mercedes quality. Have a look on the German used car sites, theres examples of very newish (2001 / 2002) E & S classes, 320CDI's and 400CDI's having covered huge mileage, i know of Sprinter vans with over 300,000 miles on them in only a few years, these vehicle's don't spend a lot of time in the garage.

However, if i owned a few nice 80's Mercs like yourself, i'd be hanging on to them as well. No doubt about that.

OK I’ll stick my hand up now……I am a car snob! So sorry Mark, current Merc’s are awful. Method for determining this is simple, anything driven by Premier League footballers or Jeremy Clarkson must be avoided. So include in that list new Range Rovers with 20inch wheels and 40% profile tyres, plus any convertible Jag.

See my profile I’m an engineer, so you would think I would like toys, traction control, stability control etc. Wrong, unless it’s Japanese. European manufactures have little history / experience in this area and are driven by forcing suppliers prices down whilst at the same time adding more and more complexity in to their cars (or should that read “value”?). Result huge bills and poor reliability. We’re not talking the odd irritating rattle / knock though, these are complete roadside failures. So I like stuff I can fix or at least figure out how it works.

Your reference to new German cars struck a cord. A friend was recently presented with an Audi Allroad (yes that was one on my list of options referred to in my previous reply). The owner had been parted with £900+ by a main dealer in London, to fix a dodgy fuel gauge! And it still didn’t work. Anyway it was eventually fixed (on an industrial estate in North Wales by my friends non-franchise garage!) Moral of the story, stay away from anything European, newish and with added “value”.

Maybe I could be tempted by a 461, but we need 6 seats and it’s not possible to get a GWagen with 6 forward facing seats and 3 point belts. I guess life is a compromise, hence my “fleet”.

Russ

I could not agree more with Russ... anything made by Mercedes since 2000 is nothing but a pile of poo. When Daimler "merged" with Chrysler they promised the Mercedisation of Chrysler. What they have delivered in the Chryslerisation of Mercedes.

The reason for this is that greed has taken over the finest of automobile makers. They are no longer interested in making the best cars in the world. They just want more money. And they achieve this by squeezing their suppliers to the point where they start cutting corners and delivering s***

But this is not only Mercedes' problem. My father-in-law has always been a Peugeot man. He had loads of 605s. Beautifully designed and made. Never a problem. He bought a couple of years ago a BMW 530d. Turbo broke @ 18,000 Kms. They had to replace the two catalysts because they were soaked in oil. 2nd turbo @ 55,000 kms, with a coupla' cats as well. Shifted the bloody thing. Got a brand-spanking-new 607 with all the options for a fraction of what the BMW cost.

Mark, BTW, what do you have against the W140? I know that it is a leviathan but it is like a million times better made than any Merc in the current range, including the S class.

At home, we were always Mercedes folk. Dad had scores of them. He even developed a saying about it, something like: "He who drives a Merc will never drive anything else unless he cannot afford a Merc anymore". Those were the days when Mercedes was well beyond the quality standards that the rest of the industry could only dream of...... Well, that's no longer the case.

I am getting so nostalgic about it that I have now in my hands a brochure from my collection. It's in Spanish and the title is something like "The passenger car program fom Mercedes-Benz". It's from February 1994. It's got the W-202 (C-Class), the W-124 (saloon, estate, coupe and cabrio), the W140 (saloon and coupe), the R-129 (SL) and YES, the W463 (G-Wagen). It is mouth-watering. It is wonderful. It is the last show of Mercedes at the pinnacle of car-making. Since then, everything has gone downhill.

Cheers,

Thought they were VW LT's? but fitted with an inferior engine :D

(pull pin, throw....... and run :wink: )

I love merc's from the 80's once you have own a merc and had that reliable you can not go back second rate cars
bwm parts are too dear not one thing under 1 pound and never surprice you on how cheap but merc do
the old slow engine are best last forever in there unstress from 307d's are better than sprinters(not faster)
460 are more tougher than 463 which will have electrical faults in 10 years?
123 one of the best car merc built simple and reliable
I have a 460 1984 had for 3 years
and a 123 300d 1984 had for 1 years
407d van 1981 had for 12 years
happy man peter

I note that a lot of our members have a G from the 1980's while others go for the more modern interior of the '90s. . .Can someone tell me really why you should go from an 80s model to a 90s model ? I must say I'm really happy with what I've got.

Greetings all. I am new to this board, but not to Mercedes. Here's my two cents worth.

I have both an '85 280GE LWB and a '91 300GE Cabriolet. The differences are much more than cosmetic. The power and ride of the 463 chassis is startlingly superior. The 463 handles better on and off pavement, and is a much more practical daily driver.

If I could spec out my own G-Wagen, it would be an early (pre-1996) 463 chassis with 463 motor and running gear, but with the more simple diff-lock mechanism of the 460. Also, the 460's steel dash and rubber floormats would replace the wood and carpet. I'd keep the 463 seats, though, because they're much more comfortable than the older style. :)

Also, I'd make the ratio in the transfer case 4:1 instead of 2:1.

As far as an 80s vs. 90s G, I'm not sure I'd sort it out that way. Certainly the post '98 models, with all the electronics and inherent reliability issues, are out of the question. I'd much rather have a 460 than one of those. But the early 463's, while slightly more complex than the 460, aren't nearly as frought with electronics etc. as the new ones. To echo an earlier post, the early 463, with all wheel drive and more guts, strikes the best balance between reliability and usability.

My mother has an old '71 280SE. (she's too old to drive it. It's become part of the family stable.) You get in, turn the key, and it starts. Every time. For 33 years. That's what made Mercedes great. My mechanic has said outright that to buy a new Mercedes is idiotic. Lease it, drive it 3 years, and then turn the piece of s*** back in. But don't own it. Very sad. Mercedes is still trading on a reputation that it built decades ago. But it's already beginning to fade. It will be interesting to see how DC reacts once the word is widespread that their product is no good.

To echo an earlier post, the early 463, with all wheel drive and more guts, strike more of a balance between reliability and usability.

All of this, of course, IMHO.

I would have to agree with you Mark, I don't like the indicators on the mirrors either.