Ignition / Fuel system replacement parts
It's been a long time coming but over the last few days there has been activity on the G.
I finally managed to reconnect the restored fuel tank and all the pipework at the rear. Initially the pump was seized but we freed it up quite easily. Water and oil were checked and it was test fired.
The G now runs, but very lumpily and floods if youstart it with the fuel pump relay in situ from the start. If you put the fuel pump relay in when it has run for a few seconds (with fuel in the cylinders) it will run but not maintain idle. Its definitely running on 3-4 cylinders only. When you shut the engine off you also hear a noise like a balloon going down (air leak???).
As the ignition system is an unknown qualtiy i want to replace the plugs, leads, cap and rotor before messing with what could be a perfectly functional injection system. I do however wish to replace the rest of the flexible fuel pipes from the pump up to the metering head as they are pretty perished.
I looked on Ebay quickly tonight and found a dizzy cap is over £70 . I note that there are two types of dizzy cap. The one fitted has thin terminals and in my spares box I found a new unused cap, but with thicker terminals and was wondering if I match up the leads and other parts to this cap, potentially saving me £70 plus.
Can anyone recommend a supplier for the ignition parts and fuel lines? I know dealer prices are sometimes fair/horrendous and as such will be trying my local Merc dealer and a specialist tomorrow for prices but any others you may have would be welcome.
Hi
PM me you chassis number and i will price these up for you
I assume its a 280GE you have
from the running on 3-4 and not 6? Hope its not a V8!!!
If so....approx
Three types of cap £40 - £60
three types of rotor £15 - £20
plugs straight forward £15 set
and leads a fortune!!! £25 lead?
Fuel pipe i can sort
If you have the Bosch number from the cap you have i can cross refer it to see what the options are
Cheers
Hi Again
Thanks for the info..the chassis should read 460 233 27 032206.
This is a bit of a brain teaser but here we go. Taking into account the G is 28 years old as does not have to have its original engine or disctributor fitted? The engine number from factory is 110 994 22 001317 and means the G is an Auto Box? The engine number is stamped into the block behind the distributor to check. The distributor part number should be A002 158 76 01 if original. There is a plastic dust cap in between the rotor and the cap if you have the right distributor it should have MB number A000 158 07 11 or
A000 158 13 11 on it. If it has A000 158 16 11 it is the later distributor.
Having said that and assuming the engine etc is original you seem to have a concoction of parts fitted and there is no wonder it does not run!!! There are three types of Cap and matching Rotor arm fitted to that engine up to and from engine serial numbers (MB rarely list cut off points in Dates etc and the Beru dates seem wrong unless the last 1 should be a 7?). Your engine should have the middle type fitted to it. Your Cap works out to the early type and the Rotor the late type!!! No wonder it wont run right!!!
Your cap Bosch number 1235 522 297 works to MB number A000 158 29 02 and is wrong (early)
You need Bosch number 0290 004 503 MB number A000 158 41 02. (middle)
Your Beru number VK311S works to MB number A000 158 44 02 and Bosch 1235 522 329 and is wrong in principle (late)
Your rotor Beru EVL087 works to MB number A000 158 35 31 and Bosch 1234 332 279 and is wrong in principle (late)
You need Bosch number 1234 332 173 MB number A000 158 22 31 (middle)
The early and middle type of cap take the slim lead you refer to and the late cap the fat ones!!!
If you want the proper cap you are stuck with the slim leads. The question i dont know the answer to is if the later cap will physically fit your distributor? If it will i can get the fat leads to suit.
Distributor Cap No A000 158 41 02 £60.00 (middle)
Rotor Arm A000 158 22 31 £15.90 (middle)
Plug Lead No A110 159 18 18 £5.20 / Mtr x 5 (all)
No1 x 475mm
No2 x 565mm
No3 x 685mm
No4 x 745mm
No5 x 855mm
No6 x 975mm
Coil x 360mm
slim type ends
Dist Cap Lead End No A000 159 27 42 £6.50 x 7 (early/middle)
Coil Lead End No A000 156 74 10 £6.40 x 1 (early/middle)
fat type ends
Dist Cap Lead End No A000 159 28 42 £5.40 x 7 (late)
Coil Lead End No A000 159 29 42 £9.30 x 1 (late)
Plug ends are all the same
Plug Lead Crimp End No A000 159 14 38 £1.10 x 14
Plug Lead Suppressor End No A000 156 51 10 £10.40 x 6
Bosch MB Plugs A003 159 12 03 £2.25 x 6
I have access to the special crimping tool to crimp the ends onto the leads and can make the leads up for you.
The proper MB lead ends screw onto the lead instead of the standard push on and are much better but expensive.
Prices are at retail but i could get at least 15% off for you then plus VAT. I guess it seems quite expensive but they are quality parts and the repro ones especially the leads are not upto the job.
Most are available in the UK from MB but a couple of parts i will have to get from MB Germany and will take 48Hrs.
The fuel pipes on the engine are mainly metal other than the feed pipe to the fuel pressure regulator which MB list as number
A230 476 87 26 and is £16.30 / Mtr but is just regular petrol pipe.
Hope this helps and PM me if you need anything sourcing or more info.
I am not too far away in Doncaster.
Thanks
.
"Thanks for the info..the chassis should read 460 233 27 032206."
Hmm, not sure why but the number on the log book is as I showed above, maybe it was misread ona previous logbook, who knows?. Anyway the engine number is correct, it is indeed an auto too.
I'm guessing the parts supplied and fitted by the last owner came from a branch of GSF. Often they struggle to differentiate between model changes and the provision of a late rotor arm and cap. I'm not sure why but maybe its a revision/superceeded version of the 'middle' one. Either way - as the rotor has been swapped one would guess the owner thought it would fit the early cap. On close inspection, aside from the HT lead connectors it is physically identical so i can't see why it would not work with requisite plugs and HT Leads.
I'll check the dizzy number tomorrow but the dust cap is definitely still in situ. If that ties in Ok I will be in touch to order the leads, plugs and so on. I shall also check the pipes needed and get photos. I know its expensive but quality lasts longer and ensurtes better running - I know.
Thanks very much for your help.
An update!
Thanks to Gav (above) for providing the correct leads and plugs. Yesterday we finally got a spark and a very good one at that.
Sadly it wasn't to solve the running problems though I am sure it's helped.
Now we have fuel to the metering head, fuel out of the metering head, fuel at the injectors but it's a bitch to start and it's running roughly throughout the rev range. There's a lot of blue smoke which we think is from wasted fuel (previous owner) that hasn't been fired filling the bores and washing down into the oil which has in turn thinned the oil and as a result leaks back through on the exhaust cycle.
The engine seems to be flooding. When you get it running it's really rough. Pull the fuel pump relay out for a few seconds and it's still running - but smoother for a while until the fuel is used and then it needs refitting. This to me suggests it's getting too much.
The head stinks of unburn't fuel too.
I'm loathed to mess with the mixture screw without a baseline as I might make things worse.
I'm going to drain it, refill the oil, charge up another battery and go again but if anyone has any thoughts on overfuelling I would be interested.
Hi
The 280 Jetronic fuel system has many interfaces.
when you switch on the ignition the fuel pump may run for a few seconds to pressurise the system..the cold start function which works in tandem with the fuel pump provides extra fuel via a seventh injector.this is managed by a temp sensor in the cylinder head which sends a signal to the cold start regulator ( on the side of the engine under the oil filter).this signal sends power to a By-metal strip in the regulator which opens a supply of fuel to the seventh injector..after the engine has started it senses the block/cylinder head water temperature and gradually shuts down the fuel to the seventh injector
revs during this period should be 1200 at the start reducing to 700 when hot...to make the fuel system work correctly you MUST have complete vacuum integrity ..any leak at all will put the system running rough.. there are other "fine tuning" actions that have to be done after the engine is running..
might be worth cleaning the metering head too
I was heading towards that conclusion.
If i understand correctly the metering head has a valve inside which affects the fuel pressure. If its stuck that might account for the overfuelling as it would be supplying a richer mixture all the time - rather than when necessary only.
Any tips for cleaning it?
if the tank is corroded or has dirty fuel this gunk can get sucked into the metering head causing the symptoms you describe. Clean with carburettor cleaner I suppose.
Hi
I used to have a number for a guy that could clean out metering heads very effectivly. I cant remember any of our technicians even
getting close to success. Fixwin might have a contact as well? I dont think the usual carb cleaner will touch it if thats your issue.
I will try to find the contact number
Had a look at the vacuum lines and the ones under the inlet manifold are perished. I'll get some new rubber ordered.
Does anyone have a schematic diagram? It's hard to know if it's piped up right without one.
Hi Gav
Are these senders available for Chassis WDB46023227042184 ?
Hi
Unfortunatly i could not find it for G Funk before.
There isn't anything like a clear diagram on the Parts EPC system.
I have never been able to find any either on the Workshop WIS system although this is not my speciality.
Is there a particular area that you need to check or look at or is it a full overhaul / refit?
If its just localised i may be able to find a parts picture to help?
If not Pistonhead or Fixwin38 may have further information in their files
Let me know
Gav
many thanks Gav - PM sent
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Chassis Number is 46023322032206.
Parts as fitted:
Distributor Cap, BOSCH 1235522297, brown, slim terminal with black cover
Rotor Arm, BERU EVL087 (9.1981>) - NEW
New parts:
Distibutor Cap, BERU VK311S (9.1981>) , brown, fat terminal (NEW).
I assume this was purchased when the previous owner fitted the rotor arm above, but not fitted as the existing leads are thin terminal.
Surely if I can match a set of leads to this cap I can save myself buying a new rotor and cap again :-)