Newbie question; how to tell (at a glance) difference between 460/463 etc?

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diesel_jim
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OK, next stupid newbie question.... sorry folks. ;)

Righto, I'm aware of the 460, 461, 462 and latest 463 models. Kind of learning/remembering the rough years that the various models were brought out, and the CKD 462 etc.

But... how would you, as a general rule of thumb, be able to glance at a G and say "that's a 461" or "that's a 463"??? ( i know that looking inside the cab and seeing the pull-up difflock levers means a 461... right??)

Obviously a new-ish (mid 90's?) one should be a 463 but.... just like Land Rover defenders, which I know inside out/upside down, there are lots of exceptions.

I happen to know, that looking at a Defender, the size/shape of the exhaust tail pipe, type of back axle and drum or disc brakes, position of the fuel filler, lack of front air vents, bulge in the bonnet, type of rear sticker, will all determine what type/age of vehicle it is (I'm talking about unmolested "factory spec" trucks here)

Is there a similar list of these type of things that one of you knowledgable guys could share with me? I appreciate I won't be able to be a complete anorak overnight, but I'm a quick learner on things I'm interested in!!

Many thanks, Danke, Gracias!!!

Roly
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Re: Newbie question; how to tell (at a glance) difference ...

If you are used to the differences between the various L/Rover models, then spotting the G types should be easy.

The 460 and 461 are effectively the same model, the base model ie rubber mats. The 463 is the high spec model ie carpet.

A few easy to spot differences, these are general and refer to RHD models-

Age- Pre '90 460, post '90 463. there was a v limited no of RHD 461s in 98.

Wing mirrors- 460s are more rectangular and can be rotated either vertically or horizontally, 463s are fixed

Grills- 460 is black, 463 is painted to match body

Fuel filler- 460 is on the rear recessed, 463 is on the side with covering flap

exhaust- 460 comes out the rear, 463 out the passenger's side. Not so after 2000

Many other sublte differences, but they are the main ones.

Of course, many 460s have had body mods to make them look like 463s so at first glance you may be confused. I always look at the fuel filler as few people would change that.

Post 2000, the differences became less obvious, but as there were v few rhd 461s, you can assume that they are 463s

Telling the engines is more difficult as only the air intake grills are different

diesel_jim
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Re: Newbie question; how to tell (at a glance) difference ...

Cheers Roly, that's exactly the kind of anorak umm...enthusiast information I was after!!! brilliant.  (it's just like me and LR's I guess)

 

Got any more gems of info?

prwales
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Re: Newbie question; how to tell (at a glance) difference ...

as Roly has said the killer fact is the fuel filler, many w461s have later w463 front ends fitted and tarted up interiors too. Their track widths are different too but that is difficult to spot as their alloy wheels et's differ as well. 

Pistonhead
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Re: Newbie question; how to tell (at a glance) difference ...

Hi Jamie,

This is not a stupid question at all; everyone in the learning curve asks this question, so think nothing of it.

W460 - Identifying external features.
 

Front of vehicle:

  • Headlights surrounds are of dark finish unless colour coded by some owners and bulky finish.
  • The surrounds have a cut off on the outer-bottom corner.
  • The bumper is thinner as compared to the W463.
  • The front grille is of metal, again usually dark in colour. 

Middle of vehicle:

  • The external door mirrors are mounted on an L-shaped bracket with a rectangular mirror glass which can be adjusted to either Landscape or Portrait profile.

Rear of vehicle:

  • Number plate lights, mounted as a cluster of three on the near-side, some models have a cover on all three lights to look as one assembly.
  • Main and reliable give a way to identify a W460 is the visible fuel filler cap mounted on the off-side of vehicle. Mostly these are a round lockable cap.
  • Rear bumper is of two piece and again, thin in comparison to the W463.
  • The rear lights have a flat lens.
  • The exhaust tail pipe exists at off-side rear.
  • The tailgate wiring for heated rear window, rear wiper and rear fog light is looped externally, from the rear near-side quarter panel to the tailgate.

Vehicle Interior:

  • The early W460s' were fitted with front Recaro seats.
  • Being a part time four by four, two pull-levers were fitted at the rear of middle console (in between the front seats). The front lever operates the front axle lock diff. The rear lever operated the rear axle lock diff. These could be operated at drivers will and in sequence he chose.
  • Next to the two levers is a high and low ratio selector of transfer box.
  • The dash is a hard plastic finish but practical and functional.
  • The instrument panel is unitary fixture furnishing the front and rear axle locking lights mounted one over the other, The top light indicating for front axle and the bottom one for the rear axle. Post 1984 model came central locking and a green pilot light was fitted to the bottom-right corner of the instrument panel.
  •  Diesel vehicles post 1984 will have five speed manual gear box instead of a four speed.
  • Fire extinguisher mounted under the front drivers seat. First Aid box placed under the passenger dash/footwell area with tool kit in a folding, cloth bag. I think, they also include a warning triangle in the same area.

As a general comment, I think, the W460s' did not come with sunroofs. I hope a forum member could confirm this point.

W461 - Identifying external features.

Front of vehicle:

  • Very similar to W460 and remaining a part time four by four. Same headlight surrounds and front grille. Similar front bumper.

Middle of vehicle:

  • The door mirror mounts are a military fitting. I can best describe as a widen U-shaped mount fixed onto the A-pillar. A rectangular mirror glass mounted in Portrait only. 
  • Has tilt and slide sunroof.

Rear of vehicle:

  • Number plate lights, mounted as a cluster of three on the near-side, some models have a cover on all three lights to look as one assembly.
  •  Visible fuel filler cap mounted on the off-side of vehicle. Mostly these are a round  lockable cap.
  • Rear bumper is of two piece and again, thin in comparison to the W463.
  • The rear lights have a flat lens.
  • The exhaust tail pipe exists at off-side rear.

Vehicle Interior:

  • Being a part time four by four, two pull-levers were fitted at the rear of middle console (in between the front seats). The front lever operates the front axle lock diff. The rear lever operated the rear axle lock diff. These could be operated at drivers will and in sequence he chose.
  • Next to the two levers is a high and low ratio selector of transfer box.
  • The dash is a hard plastic finish but practical and functional.
  • The instrument panel is unitary fixture but of more modern type.
  •  All models are a "No option automatic transmission"..
  • Fire extinguisher mounted under the front drivers seat. First Aid box placed under the passenger dash/footwell area with tool kit in a folding, colth bag. I think, they also include a warning triangle. In LWB versions some of this equipment is housed under front seat cabins.
  • More modern steering wheel, including air bags.

As a general comment here, under the bonnet there are power plant differences. W461 employing the more modern CDI engines.

W463 - Identifying external features.

Front of vehicle:

  • Headlights surrounds are colour coded and have more rounded, softer features with full corners; made of plastic. There is a small valance under the headlights.
  • The bumper is wider compared to the W460.
  • The front grille is plastic softer in feature and colour code to vehicles colour.
  • Both front fogs are housed in the front bumper.

Middle of vehicle:

  • The external door mirrors are squareish and a flush fit like any other saloon vehicle. These are internally adjustable and have heated glass.
  • Equipped with tilt and slide sunroof.

Rear of vehicle:

  • Number plate lights, centrally mounted and non visible at a standing level.
  • Fuel filler is mounted on the off-side, side panel covered with a locking almost, squareish flap.
  • Rear bumper is one piece and wider.
  • The rear lights are marginally taller but have a ridged lens.
  • The exhaust tail pipe exists from the near side. Depending on engine, these exists may differ.
  • The wire feed to heated rear window, rear wiper is looped in the fold of the tailgate door and its pillar, so when the door is open the wiring housed in an concertina tubing is pulled out from the door pillar.

Vehicle Interior:

  • The interior is considerably plusher in comfort and upholstery. More akin to a Mercedes saloon model, wood vernier dash and console stripping.
  • Being a full time four by four, it has switchable center diff lock, front and rear axle lock switches mounted on the front center dash. These switches are mounted in a cluster of three and are sequential in function. The first button to press in the sequence is the middle switch for the center diff, followed by the bottom switch for the rear axle diff  and finally the top switch for the front axle diff. Switching off the center diff will automatically switch off the axle locks.
  • The W463 still comes with a high and low gear lever.
  • The dash is slightly rounded off and seemingly a piece unit which include the instrument panel.
  • Fire extinguisher mounted under the front drivers seat. First Aid box and tool kit is housed in cabin mounted above the rear wheel arch, the triangle is in one cabin on the wheel arch and the First Aid box and tool kit in the other. 
  • The radio antenna is electronic and is circuited into the rear-side glass.
  • The rear fog and reverse lights are housed in the bumper.

I think that covers all I know.

 

gav.helme
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Re: Newbie question; how to tell (at a glance) difference ...

My guess Rakesh is that you didn't write that from the top of your head wink

Otherwise Anorak status "Gold Standard with Bar" has been achieved cool

Pistonhead
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Re: Newbie question; how to tell (at a glance) difference ...

Actually it was.devil  and I ate the bar - nice it was chocolate.smiley

JASONGDS
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Re: Newbie question; how to tell (at a glance) difference ...

Amazimgly no one has started on the 460 v 463 in the quality debate, keep it that way!

bigblock
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Re: Newbie question; how to tell (at a glance) difference ...

Its easy to tell the difference by the drivers.....

460= Fat beardy bloke with oil stained hands likes real ale, pasties and talking about the wonders of the OM606

461= Probably uses it to plough the fields.

463= Fat non-beardy bloke with lily white hands likes gin and tonic, pasta and talking about the mysterious difflock buttons.

 

Pistonhead
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Re: Newbie question; how to tell (at a glance) difference ...

Bigblock,

You forgot to mention about the carpet slippers he'd be wearing.

Now I think that was true to form; no one mentioned the differences about the vehicles but their owners'.

montreal
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Re: Newbie question; how to tell (at a glance) difference ...

Failing the visual clues you should always ask (if you're buying) for chassis numbers. I've recently seen a 460 dressed up as a w463 with the w463 filler location. What about under the skin?? Does a w463 have rear discs?

D

gav.helme
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Re: Newbie question; how to tell (at a glance) difference ...

This is hard to describe....

If you're talking about specific UK vehicles, Rakesh is all good apart from the very late 463's...

Worldwide you looking at these rough timescales...

460 from 1979 to 1990 - Basic Civilian Models early on to higher spec later on.

461 from 1980 to Current - Military upto the 90's the from 90's some Civilian Models (But mainly Military)

462 from 1980 to 2000 - Military and rare Models

463 from 1989 to current - Early 463's upto 1995 in UK from 1995 to early 2000's only a few RHD Models - 2002 ish onwards to current these are top spec big bucks vehicles.

Montreal, only the late 463's ran a rear disc set up.

Engine Varient is probably the easiest indicator of age and model etc.

Gav

Spider1V
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Re: Newbie question; how to tell (at a glance) difference ...

You also forgot about the wood and leather trim, the CD player, Sat Nav and general awesomeness of the 463 driver. *sniff*

Spider1V