Non standard rear shock mounts - URGENT
Hello again All,
Needed to renew the shocks & top brackets on 463 300GD LWB, only to find that bottom mount is a PIN and not eye.
Shocks (which like a bouncy castle) are Armstrong 65 00915 0202.
Has anyone come across pin/pin mounting? Can anyone recommend a pin/pin shock?!!
Hi
Can you post any pictures? and post or PM your chassis number...
I have never come across a Rear Lower G Shocker that is Pin mounted? Either early 463 or 460 series...
Where does it locate to? The brackets for the Eye type are obviously part of the Axle Tube...
I have a funny feeling that the latter G's that employ Rear Disc Brakes may use this set up but not 100% sure...
and can't understamd why a 300GD would have this set up...
Gav
those "pin" shocks are normal
Speaking unqualifiedly, it seems Mercedes may have fitted front shocks to the rears.
Your Armstrong part number; I can not verify - where did you buy the dampers? Other sites indicate by their catalougue a conventional shock absorber with an eye fitting at the botttom and a pin attachment at the top. (Obviously wrong)
Gav would be best to answer your query as my access to the EPC filters your vehicle details out. It does show as your chassis number to have the conventional drum brakes but by your posted photos, you have disc brakes.
Good Luck,
Rakesh - good to hear from you again!
The shocks were on her & I too cannot trace replacement Armstrongs, not that I would want to - very bouncy! The brages are drums at the back - photos from iPhone not great and I was lying on an ants nest and they were as hot and angry as I.
My hope is that prwales might be able to point me in the direction of replacement pin/pin shocks.
Alan
no they aren't they are eye bolts on mine, lashings of apologies
Rats! I thought we were on to something there ... I cannot trace Boge Turbos, that's why I went for Europarts Sachs, not even thinking about pin/pin or pin/eye.
From pic looks like the sort of job I do to keep the baler going ! These are not factory mounts. You do not need a new axle tube . You may need new shocks...they are not a black art. Remove the shocks ,there should be a stamped no. near the crimp ,match them,or just decode from a manufacturers site from dimensions.Axel and I favour the jap KYB ...good value and as good as orginal equipment...dont fret there are much bigger worries with a G.
If you are a purist there are G engineers who can fabricate to o.e. dimensions...sadly the one I know is booked up for a year !
Tony - Fret I not, but she is making me sea-sick. Nobody I can find can match the Armstrong shocks fitted and a Google search of the part number reveals nothing. I will try KYB ...
As for the bigger worries - all the joy of the beasts people tell me.
You must have a fine old baler!
Alan
REPLY TO THREAD No 5:
Lashing of apologises to Anne, it was only last week I had my eyes tested and new vario focals to go with it. Still getting used to seeing through them.
Obviously, something has gone wrong, I see again and concur you do in fact have drum brakes - still can not explain other than old age why I saw it as disc brakes earlier.
Can I ask for a physical check of rear axle details found on the riveted plate of the axle? Advisably away form ants nests. Do have a rear locking diff?
I am thinking that you may have a different axle fitted before you bought your vehicle.
Koni do a range of pin/Pin heavy duty shock absorbers ....may be worth dropping them an e-mail with the open /closed dimensions of your original shocks....
http://www.koni.com/car-racing/products/offroad/
Steve
http://webcat.zf.com/index.asp?SPR=4
fill in manfacturer and car and up comes the shock for every model of G
Hi Alan
Your chassis number comes up with nothing unusual in the shocker dept.
Standard Front Eye Top / Pin Bottom part number A005 323 72 00
Standard Rear Pin Top / Eye Bottom part number A004 326 81 00
Obviously it is running the standard rear drum set up and from the pics everything else looks standard 463 300GD.
My only theory and it is just that is that either...
The Rear Shocker Mounts on the Axle have either had heavy damage or heavy corrosion and have been altered to suit the Pin type shocker from another vehicle as a bodge repair.
Or the suspension has been altered for off road use and the shocker mounts have been reworked as part of a body lift etc.
I however see no evidence of a lift in the picture and favour the former thoery.
It had flashed through my mind if it had a rear axle swop from a van but these too run Eye Bottom Shocker and the mount is similar to the G anyway and not what you have.
As a resolve the MB Dealers suggestion of an Axle Tube is probably the best they could do! At least they have offered an option instead of sitting on the fence?
As Tony suggests any good fabricator should be able to remove the old mounts and refabricate some new ones to suit the OE shockers.
MB do list Rear Axle Shocker Mounts as a repair solution, but they don't apply to your vehicle in theory. The part numbers are A460 326 04 40 Left and A460 326 05 40 Right, they may be adapted to suit or there is a chance that they will be perfect. They are £31.20 each + vat and MB Germany have limited stocks.
Do the current mounts look like they have been altered, any non factory welding or peices filleted in?
Gav
Thanks
An amazing website - but they too say only pin/eye.
Gav - you are a positive mine of information - thank you.
I know the history of this G - I am only the second owner, it was owned by a wealthy local family who bought for the run to prep school and shooting. My own son now 25 remembers it well! In those days it was serviced by Caffyns in Salisbury. Post school days it lurked in a open barn and only ever did 500 miles odd a year on the shoot. Amongst other vehicles the family had Landrovers, so when the old G became less loved (you should have seen the state of it!) it was serviced by a local Landrover "specialist" who hates Gs. I have known him for years but nonetheless I think he is a lying toerag (when it comes to Gs) and he has butchered it over the years - but will not admit it. Apart from his butchering it is in very good shape (and now has some nice ORC bits on it from Tim Carnell's old green G) and has a totally genuine 115,000 miles on it. I am beginning to think that she needs to be put back to original G spec within reason - I suspect it has Landrover springs on it etc! I only paid £1500 for her on serious "mates rates", so I reckon it is well worth it. I have seen a similar one with much higher miles on the www for over £10,000.
I will speak to the Caffyns parts fella and give him the part numbers of the mounts. I have now just ordered them.
In the meantime Koni UK (Camberley Autofactors) are asking Holland whether they have a pin/pin version of the 8240-1197SPX Heavy Track.
Next thing I am going to is get her on a ramp and clean off everything - see if it really is a "baler bodge" and find the axle number as Rakesh suggested!
ALL - I thank you for your help with this.
Dear All - these brackets do not look like a bodge to me. The garage reckons they are original too. Could the axle be something different? I could not find any axle markings. Let's hope Koni come up with goods & someone has also said they have found some Quinton Hazell 4x4 shocks that would replace the current Armstrongs.
Hi Alan
In my view, the original MB shocker brackets have had the lower section removed and the flat plate welded on the bottom to take the pin mounts, its difficult in photos but i would not say that it is a bodge job now i have seen it close up, but also i don't think it is MB either. As for the axle, it looks like a G one and i cant think what else it could be off, both T1 and Sprinter vans use eyed rear shocks and the control arm location brackets would be missing as well as them being leaf sprung, if you had swopped all those over, you would have swopped the shocker brackets aswell?
Can anyone post pics of the proper bottom eyed rear shocker mount from an early 463? Jason, Mike....
Interesting you should mention the history and the LR garage that have looked after it....
In my reckoning both Defender and Disco shocks are pin/pin!!!!
The plot thickens.....here in lies your answer?
Gav
1ST and 4TH pictures especially look like alterations to me.....
Gav - you could well be right! It could well be that toerag I was telling you about. I am being sent Quinton Hazell shock details, but QH shocks do not fill me with joy! I hope Koni come up with something...
Incidentally I have just discovered that she was last serviced by MB in 2002! God knows what the toerag has bodged since then. Rear wash wipe button wets the windscreen, no headlight level adjustment just for examples!
I guess that Fixwin is the man to get her back together a bit.
Hi Alan
That "Fixwin" sure is the guy you need....nothing he can't fix G wise...
I have a quote from an GWOA member that may help...
"Hi Gav
Still searching our archives for the bottom bracket pics ( have never in
Nine years seen anything different from the standard) ( I suspect the
"tame" LR mechanic had a stock of LR shocks and fitted a couple ) the pics
show very definite LR bracket profiles and the Armstrong shocks are P/n
common to fit LR (and others) plus I do not know of another axle that is
compatible with the 463 constant 4 wheel drive ( only the diff ratio's
change )
Rgds"
Looks like you have your answer...personally i would be trying to return it to standard set up, either with new brackets or some used ones cut from a scrap G, 460 and 463 are the same, so it should be easy ish to find them
Cheers
Gav
I would also think that the charictaristics of the shocker between G and LR would be quite different?
All up length and operating lengths as well as strength, rebound etc not to mention weight capacity
No wonder it is making you sea sick!
Fascinating thread....nice to see Sherlock on a case again 
Where are you based? I know a very competent G Loving/Owner MB trained indie.
Ahhhh Mr IanA2
You are still here?
How is the door screws progressing?
Gav
i have seen this bodge done a few times , owner gets a scary quote from merc for shocks /owner gets talked in to cutting about the g lower mounts to take l/r or similar cheap shocks.
buy the 460 brackets gav found for you and replace the lot -makes me wonder what state the upper shock mounts /upper and lower spring platfroms are in ,they are very deceptive looking ok at a glance but rotted away internally with less than half the original thickness of steel remaining - inspect it all thoroughly tony and i have just been replacing all the back end cups /mounts etc on the african project swb g and they looked fine until we put our fingers through the spring cup...
Does not sound great does it? CarpartsDirect have offered QH shocks with these dims:
For reference, the catalogue quotes this part as having the following dimensions:
Open length 565mm; Closed length 366mm.
These measurements are the body length excluding the studs.
From the photos they are agricultural to say the least - that will be the baler again! And at £85 each ex VAT they are not cheap.
Right now the old ones are back on, with the new top brackets. Koni have not come back to me. One option is to live with it until I get the whole beastie sorted out - checking everything that has been suggested. The parts recommended by Gav are on the way.
This forum works does it not - many thanks gentlemen! Alan
PS: These QH shocks are listed for a Renault light commercial van. Says it all I guess.
deleted.
They're not .....soooooo hot...and sssssooooo many other demands on my time.
Photos attached show what you need to consider doing. Please forgive random order of photos.
All repair parts are available from MB at reasonable prices, but the fitting is a major undertaking.
Re-fit the correct bottom shock mounts, pictured here.
You will almost certainly have the same other issues as on this 1991 W463 300GD, that is Top Shock Mounts, Top Spring Cups, Bottom Spring Saucers.
Value springs from OEM manufacturer Spidan, dearer ones from MB and Eibach.
Value shocks from Monroe and KYB. Dearer from Bilstein and Koni.
I suggest going in and doing everything at once, including matching Front springs and shocks.
Eddie.
Or you could just keep taking the sea-sickness tablets :-)
I suspect someone has put LR or RR shocks on it and butchered the axle mounts to cope.
If you can remove 1 of them , not easy with pin mounts that will be corrded?
Take them to a decent aftermarket LR place and replace, I wouldn't have thought damping rates would be that different, certainly the cheaper option in your case.
Why do people do such bodges??? It's not like you can't buy the proper part.
Or do it properley and get that repair kit welded on by a competant welder.
Not a fan of KYB, Tony!
Eddie - Nice job on your rear end!
Top brackets done - old shocks back in - waiting for Koni to get back to & for Rakesh to get an answer about the ML pin/pin shocks. Or as Jason & Gav say "do it properly!" and get back to the original.
The Sachs shocks I bought could go onto my 1983 460 280GE(L) I guess. Look at the state of them ... but they work!
As for the pump - that is after a lot of mining work.
Don't want to the bearer of bad news though I expect your front shocks shot also, though at least lets hope no one has bodged the mounts, should be eye at top and stud at bottom?
Alan
I think the 280GE would benifit from those Shocks, i reckon you have had your value from that set..
As for the pump, if thats after you have cleared away the mud i am suprised you could actually locate it!!!
280GE Fuel Pump is A002 091 97 01 and is shared with the 460 series 200GE and 230GE as well as the following cars...
W201 series 190E 1.8 190E 2.0 190E 2.3 190E 2.3 16V
W123 series 230E 280E
C123 series 230CE 280CE
T123 series 230TE 280TE
R107 series 280SL 300SL 350SL 380SL 450SL 500SL
C107 series 280SLC 350SLC 380SLC 450SLC 500SLC
W116 series 280SE 280SEL 350SE 350SEL 450SE 450SEL 450SEL 6.9
W124 series 200E 220E 230E 260E 260E 4MATIC 300E 300E 4MATIC
C124 series 200CE 220CE 230CE
T124 series 200TE 230TE
W126 series 260SE 280SE 280SEL 300SE 300SEL 380SE 380SEL 500SE 500SEL
C126 series 380SEC 500SEC
These will be mainly pre 1988 cars, the later pump were slightly different and most of the 124's etc went to twin pumps A002 091 88 01, i have seen and heard of plenty of people modifing these to fit, i think its just different fittings but would stand corrected.
If you PM - AXEL he may have a pump that he has removed from a 280GE as part of a diesel conversion...
Should give you something to look for at the breakers yard...
Thats all assuming its the Pump thats at fault and not the Fuel Pump Relay, Overload Protection Relay or a Fuse or Wiring, the Fuses do have a tendency to look OK, even when removed, good practice would be to replace all the Fuses in the board with new as a matter of course, especially if its been stood and got any moisture in....i can post some fuses if you let me know what size and how many of each you need, if seem to have amassed 000's of them...
Gav
MB Salisbury have the new brackets on their way to me. It will be interesting to see if they fit.
Part number is A4603260440. What do you reckon Gav?
Fingers crossed
Have you ordered a pair or just that left one for now?
Gav
Gav,
They have arrived at the local garage - I just need to find the time to get the beast to them to see whether they are going to fit. IF they do, on they go, followed by the Sachs shocks. It will be interesting to find out how she feels.
Alan
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Gav - you are right, no one has heard of the bottom fixing being pin. I will post a pic as possible.
Chassis number: WDB 463328 27 075626 2
Where would I find pin/pin shocks? Or can the pin mount be cut off and replaced with the correct eye? MB Salisbury reckon a "new" axle tube is the answer; that sounds pretty drastic to me.
Alan