Springs

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stig
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Hi, does anyone have that graph showing suspension spring colours and rates? Cheers Scott

mark
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Re: Springs

 Only have 460 charts

stig
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Re: Springs

Thank you!

stig
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Re: Springs

One other question, what is the significance of 1, 2 or 3 stripes?

stig
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Re: Springs

Any body know?

gav.helme
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Re: Springs

Hi

Not easy to explain this but i will give yoy my  not so brief understanding and hope it translates.

The different coloured stripes relate to different spring rates and the number of coloured stripes sub rates within the major rate.
These for example are the major colours/rates for the fronts and i have lettered them for my purposes

.
YELLOW                     B
BROWN                      E
YELLOW ORANGE    H
RED                            K
WHITE                        N
BLUE                          Q

You could take these as being the two stroke type with a suffix of "61" on the part number.

If you then add in the "60" and "62" suffixes you would get .

YELLOW                       A ONE STROKE "60"
YELLOW                       B TWO STROKE "61"
YELLOW                       C THREE STROKE "62"
BROWN                        D ONE STROKE "60"
BROWN                        E TWO STROKE "61"
BROWN                        F THREE STROKE "62"
YELLOW ORANGE      G ONE STROKE "60"
YELLOW ORANGE      H TWO STROKE "61"
YELLOW ORANGE      I THREE STROKE "62"
RED                              J ONE STROKE "60"
RED                              K TWO STROKE "61"
RED                              L THREE STROKE "62"
WHITE                          M ONE STROKE "60"
WHITE                          N TWO STROKE "61"
WHITE                          O THREE STROKE "62"
BLUE                            P ONE STROKE "60"
BLUE                            Q TWO STROKE "61"
BLUE                            R THREE STROKE "62"

It is the German factories way of fine tuning and over complicating things!!!

After all that the MB parts supply system makes it easy for you and you will usually find they will only supply the "60" suffix one stroke springs anyway as a spare part and superceed the three and two stroke "62" and "61" respectively to that!!! That is the general rule but it is worth checking if you need one of the "61" or "62" as the do supply odd ones.

Hope this helps and you have not lost the will to live

I bet yoy wish you had never asked!!!

Merry Xmas

Gav

johnnytheboy
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Re: Springs

Does anyone know if there is a heavy duty aftermarket spring and shocker kit available for the G, mines is all over the pace with a right mixture of MB original parts!

stig
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Re: Springs

Hi Gav

Ok, thanks, that sort of makes sense. I'm looking at the system because I would like a different spring just on the rear. I have standard 'green stripe' and it doesn't take a lot to make the car sit down on the stops. I don't want higher, just a bit more load bearing capability. I think 'brown stripe' would do the trick. Cheers Scott

phileas
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Re: Springs

Hi Johnnyboy,

I have fitted Desert Service's White springs (made by Eibach and they are also progressive) and the Koni Heavy Track Raid shock absorbers: much MUCH better than the standard set up (but this could also be because I tend to load a lot of stuff on the roof and tow a lot). I have tried the lighter duty Koni shocker, the raid I think its called, but the car still felt very springy when loaded and have since switched to the HD version and am very happy with the performance.

Ph

johnnytheboy
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Re: Springs

Interesting, sounds like what i'm looking for! where did you get the HD springs and shockers from?

phileas
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Re: Springs

try the following link:

http://www.desert-service.com/shop/index.php?cat=c3_Suspension.html&XTCsid=c64535493df0791d913e99b76040ab24

call him (Thomas) up and ask him to ship to the UK. By the way, he also sells the Koni Shockabsorbers for MUCH less than TBR here (you'll easily save the cost of the shipping!). 

johnnytheboy
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Re: Springs

Fantastic, thanks for the link!

gav.helme
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Re: Springs

Hi

I have some more information i hope it is of use to someone

**********************************************************************************************************************************************************

This is a listing of the different Coil Spring options that I can find. They relate to all W460 / W461 / W463 Chassis vehicles. The prices and availability were correct as of 09.01.12 from MBUK and their dealers. The different coloured stripes relate to different spring rates and the numbers of coloured stripes relate to sub rates within the major rate. These for example are the major colours for the front and rear springs.

You will see there are quite a lot of variants, it is the German factories way of fine tuning the vehicles especially the military versions and or over complicating things!!!

After all that the MB parts supply system makes it easy for you and you will usually find they will only supply the "50 or 60" suffix one stripe springs anyway as a spare part and supersede the three and two stripe "52 or 62" and "51 or 61" respectively to that!!! That is the general rule but it is worth checking if you need one of the "51 or 61" or "52 or 62" as the do supply odd ones.

This list is for reference and as a guide only. Please get the Part Number checked out to your Chassis Number before ordering or fitment. They are not in any rating order at all.

GUIDE INDEX NOTES

STRIPE = The springs are usually Black in colour with One, Two or Three coloured strips. These are the identifying stripes. One stripe = suffix “50 or 60”, Two stripes = suffix “51 or 61” and Three stripes = suffix “52 or 62”.

SUFFIX = Additional digits added to the end of the Part Number.

NCA = Not Currently Available. This could mean that MB Germany are temporarily out of stock, there is a quality issue and the parts are being withheld or they are not available at all either due to being too new and not stocked yet or too old and not stocked any more.

S/S TO = This Part Number supersedes to the number mentioned afterwards therefore for example “A4603210204 61 YELLOW TWO STRIPE £134 + VAT S/S TO 60” the number suffixed with “61” supersedes to the same number with suffix “60”.   

MB Germany = Stock is currently held at the Mercedes Benz Global Logistic Centre (GLC) at Germersheim in Germany.

MB UK = Stock is currently held at the Mercedes Benz European Logistic Centre (ELC) at Milton Keynes in England.

Colour = Colour stated is the coloured stripe or stripes found on the spring i.e. YELLOW = YELLOW stripe.

Price = Prices quoted are current MB UK Retail prices as of 09.01.12 and are subject to VAT at 20%.

Duplicate = Some colours are duplicated. Where this happens I will try to determine the technical difference or application or model designed for.

£NA = Price is currently Not Available.

FRONT SPRINGS (Each)

A4603210204 60 YELLOW ONE STRIPE £134 + VAT MB Germany
A4603210204 61 YELLOW TWO STRIPE £134 + VAT S/S TO 60
A4603210204 62 YELLOW THREE STRIPE £134 + VAT NCA
A4603215004 60 RUSSET BROWN ONE STRIPE £134 + VAT NCA
A4603215004 61 RUSSET BROWN TWO STRIPE £134 + VAT S/S TO 60
A4603215004 62 RUSSET BROWN THREE STRIPE £134 + VAT NCA
A4603210604 60 YELLOW ORANGE ONE STRIPE £134 + VAT MB Germany
A4603210604 61 YELLOW ORANGE TWO STRIPE £134 + VAT S/S TO 60
A4603210604 62 YELLOW ORANGE THREE STRIPE £134 + VAT S/S TO 61
A4603210504 60 RED ONE STRIPE £145 + VAT MB Germany
A4603210504 61 RED TWO STRIPE £145 + VAT S/S TO 60
A4603210504 62 RED THREE STRIPE £145 + VAT MB Germany
A4603210404 60 WHITE ONE STRIPE £145 + VAT MB Germany
A4603210404 61 WHITE TWO STRIPE £145 + VAT MB Germany
A4603210404 62 WHITE THREE STRIPE £145 + VAT MB Germany
A4603210004 60 BLUE ONE STRIPE £NA NCA
A4603210004 61 BLUE TWO STRIPE £NA NCA
A4603210004 62 BLUE THREE STRIPE £NA NCA
A4633210504 60 SILVER ONE STRIPE S/S TO A4633210504 £130 + VAT MB Germany
A4633210504 61 SILVER TWO STRIPE S/S TO 60
A4633210504 62 SILVER THREE STRIPE S/S TO 61
A4633210304 60 GREEN G55 AMG NOT ECE ONE STRIPE £140 + VAT NCA
A4633210304 61 GREEN G55 AMG NOT ECE TWO STRIPE £145 + VAT NCA
A4633210304 62 GREEN G55 AMG NOT ECE THREE STRIP £134 + VAT MB Germany
A4633210104 60 SQUIRREL GREY ONE STRIPE £140 + VAT NCA
A4633210104 61 SQUIRREL GREY TWO STRIPE £140 + VAT MB Germany
A4633210104 62 SQUIRREL GREY THREE STRIPE £140 + VAT MB Germany
A4633210004 60 BLUE G36/G55 AMG ONE STRIPE £145 + VAT NCA
A4633210004 61 BLUE G36/G55 AMG TWO STRIPE £145 + VAT NCA
A4633210004 62 BLUE G36/G55 AMG THREE STRIPE £145 + VAT NCA
A4613210004 60 SQUIRREL GREY/WHITE ONE STRIPE £145 +VAT MB Germany
A4613210004 61 SQUIRREL GREY/WHITE TWO STRIPE £145 +VAT MB Germany
A4613210004 62 SQUIRREL GREY/WHITE THREE STRIPE £145 + VAT MB Germany                                                         A4633210404 60 GREEN LOAD CAP 5400KG ONE STRIPE £171 + VAT NCA
A4633210404 61 GREEN LOAD CAP 5400KG TWO STRIPE £171 + VAT NCA
A4633210404 62 GREEN LOAD CAP 5400KG THREE STRIPE £171 + VAT NCA

REAR SPRINGS (Each)

A4603240204 60 YELLOW ONE STRIPE S/S TO A4603240204 £201 + VAT MB Germany
A4603240204 61 YELLOW TWO STRIPE S/S TO 60
A4603240204 62 YELLOW THREE STRIPE S/S TO 61
A4603240704 50 YELLOW ORANGE ONE STRIPE £201 + VAT MB Germany
A4603240704 51 YELLOW ORANGE TWO STRIPE £201 + VAT NCA
A4603240704 52 YELLOW ORANGE THREE STRIPE £201 + VAT NCA
A4603240604 60 BROWN ONE STRIPE S/S A4603240604 £201 + VAT NCA
A4603240604 61 BROWN TWO STRIPE S/S TO 60
A4603240604 62 BROWN THREE STRIPE S/S TO 61
A4603240304 60 GREEN ONE STRIPE S/S TO A4603240304 £201+ VAT MB UK
A4603240304 61 GREEN TWO STRIPE S/S TO 60
A4603240304 62 GREEN THREE STRIPE S/S TO 61
A4603240504 60 WHITE ONE STRIPE S/S A4603240504 £237 + VAT MB Germany
A4603240504 61 WHITE TWO STRIPE S/S TO 60
A4603240504 62 WHITE THREE STRIPE S/S TO 61
A4603240804 60 RED ONE STRIPE S/S TO A4603240804 £263 + VAT MB Germany
A4603240804 61 RED TWO STRIPE S/S TO 60
A4603240804 62 RED THREE STRIPE S/S TO 61
A4633240004 60 LILAC ONE STRIPE S/S TO A4633240004 £201 + VAT MB Germany
A4633240004 61 LILAC TWO STRIPE S/S TO 60
A4633240004 62 LILAC THREE STRIPE S/S TO 61
A4633240404 60 G55/63/65 AMG ONE STRIPE £193 + VAT MB Germany
A4633240404 61 G55/63/65 AMG TWO STRIPE £193 + VAT NCA
A4633240404 62 G55/63/65 AMG THREE STRIPE £193 + VAT NCA
A4603241004 60 AZURBLUE ONE STRIPE S/S TO A4603241004 £263 + VAT MB Germany
A4603241004 61 AZURBLUE TWO STRIPE S/S TO 60
A4603241004 62 AZURBLUE THREE STRIPE S/S TO 61
A4603241104 60 BEIGE ONE STRIPE S/S TO A4603241104 £263 + VAT MB Germany
A4603241104 61 BEIGE TWO STRIPE S/S TO 60
A4603241104 62 BEIGE THREE STRIPE S/S TO 61                                                                                                               A4613240504 60 LOAD CAP 5400KG ONE STRIPE £452 + VAT MB Germany
A4613240504 61 LOAD CAP 5400KG TWO STRIPE £452 + VAT NCA
A4613240504 62 LOAD CAP 5400KG THREE STRIPE £452 + VAT NCA
A4613240004 60 SQUIRREL GREY/WHITE ONE STRIPE £431 + VAT NCA
A4613240004 61 SQUIRREL GREY/WHITE TWO STRIPE £431 + VAT MB Germany
A4613240004 62 SQUIRREL GREY/WHITE THREE STRIPE £431 + VAT NCA                                                                     A4613240404 60 LOAD CAP 5400KG ONE STRIPE £NA NCA
A4613240404 61 LOAD CAP 5400KG TWO STRIPE £NA NCA
A4613240404 62 LOAD CAP 5400KG THREE STRIPE £NA NCA

*********************************************************************************************************************************************************

Thanks

Gav

gav.helme
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Re: Springs

Hi

My apologies for the 3 line that the above post has dropped out of line? They are not like that in the document or the input or preview screens. I hope you can figure it out if you need it. I have it on a Word Doc if anybody needs a better copy. PM me

Thanks

stig
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Re: Springs

No, that's great, thanks for the info

Roly
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Re: Springs

Gav,
That's really useful thanks. You can create a pdf document and attach that as a file if it is easier for spreadsheets and things.

needamerc
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Re: Springs

I am trying to figure out a 30/40mm spring lift using factory springs. I believe red rears give a lift.
Do you match colours on each axle? Do red rears mean red fronts?
Eddie.

gav.helme
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Re: Springs

Hi Eddie

It is very difficult to work out lift measurements with the MB info i can get hold of.

For sure every chassis i have seen has mixed colours front to back.

I have never come across one with all 4 matching from the factory.

The older MB cars use a points rating system where you add up points as per equipment fitted...

i.e 4 cyl petrol is lighter than 6 cyl diesel so has different spring, auto heavier than manual, towbar etc, you get the picture, but the G has never used that system, so it is diffecult to work that way either.

I have some spring rate charts relating to 460 series that i can email if you PM me your address, not sure if any use although until you get to the AMG stuff, most of the 460/463 chassis had the same type of springs from factory.

If you send me your chassis number on the PM aswell i can tell you what colours it left the factory with and what possible upgrades i think the chassis type would have had for various options.

In my simplistic none suspension guru terms, you are looking for a physically longer spring but with the same spring rate as original?

From my understanding you could have a shorter spring that was stiffer or a longer spring that was softer and end up with all sorts of possibilities and handling comprimises.

It does seem easier and a better option to me, to follow the path Philias has memtioned in the older post and bought a pre matched set, specifically designed to do what you are looking for, from a known suspension specialist that deals in that field, unless you specifically want to keep to the MB products.

Cheers

Gav

needamerc
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Re: Springs

Thanks for the input Gav. 
It is not for me but for a customer who wants a spring lift. He baulked at the cost of the ORC +40mm package and asked what a factory spring set would cost. From my research it seems a factory spring set (HD red) would cost as much as or more than the ORC set.
I agree it appears that the colour coding does not seem to imply that both axles get the same colours. I picked up the tip from another seller that red rears give a lift (at least 30mm) therefore I wondered if factory reds all round would do the job. As you know EPC gives no info on heigths. I did find some interesting info on weights though.
I think I will advise the customer to go the ORC route as I have done myself and can vouch for (very comfortable). In both cases we are talking 460.333 LWB 300GD's.
I would welcome any charts you can forward to eddieatneedamercdotcom
Eddie.

firebolt
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Re: Springs

i wonder if some one could verify my VAG46023917901273 8

what the front  springs are that my little G came with

the rear ones where a mess, left one different than the right one,

i have placed yellow Suplex replacements ( my dealer pointed me in this )

and i like theme, truck is higher on it's wheels, and a little smoother

now i noticed the front could also have a upgrade the years have taken the toll on the springs and, the mounting of the winch / bumper douse not help , my front has dropped about 3 to 4 cm due to the winch,

i would like to get this back, i like the way the car is a little higher at the rear, but driving i notich the car is on it nose

i think one ore 2 spring grates higher would do the trick, and make the car level again, any inside in this is highly regarded 

thank you for you time

 

kind regards, Martin

 

 

 

gav.helme
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Re: Springs

Hi Martin

Your 1984 Puch 230GE came with...

Front Spring A460 321 50 04 Russet Brown (All models)

These are available in 3 versions

60 = 1 stripe / 61 = 2 stripe / 62 = 3 stripe

Rear Spring A460 324 02 04 Amber (or Yellow - EPC calls them both?!!?) (up to serial 902041)

These are also available in 3 versions...

60 = 1 stripe / 61 = 2 stripe / 62 = 3 stripe

The part number A460 324 07 04 Yellow Orange type was only fitted to vehicle after serial number 902042

These were again available in 3 versions...

50 = 1 stripe / 51 = 2 stripe / 52 = 3 stripe

If you need any more info please post again

Gav

firebolt
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Re: Springs

Thanks, Gav

much appreciated

i had a look in EPC , but i'm not experienced enough to tell if this was correct,

i think i will go for a set Orange/ yellow font the front , as the list one step up in the chart

kind regards, Martin

 

gav.helme
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Re: Springs

Hi Martin

Thats no problem at all...

Just be careful though!!

If you are reading from my listing in this thread, it does state that the part numbers and colours are in no particular rating order.

It is just a simple list of what is available.

If you want to know what is the next rating above your standard colour i would have to do some research...

However it is above me as to the dynamics G Wagen suspension and you need a more technical person or read some of the

other posts. The MB R&D department didn't spend millions working on that set up for fun, everything you change will have a

direct or indirect effect on something else...

It all depends on spring rates, lengths etc

for example...

A460 321 50 04 Russet Brown 425mm long at 2000N - 175mm long at 7000N

A460 321 02 04 Yellow 400mm long at 2000N - 150mm long at 7000N

A460 321 06 04 Yellow Orange 430mm long at 2000N - 200mm long at 7000N

A460 321 05 04 Red 440mm long at 2000N - 225mm long at 7000N

A460 321 04 04 White 405mm long at 2000N - 260mm long at 7000N

A460 321 00 04 Blue 410mm long at 2000N - 280mm long at 7000N

These are all for 2 stripe springs...

You need to know what you have now and what you want the new springs to do?

Do you run with a lot of extra weight all the time? What sort of overall height do you want?

As you can see the Yellow spring is the shortest of these i listed in both unloaded and loaded state, the White and Blue are nearly as short unloaded but are the longest two when loaded...

...it is very complicated to get right and my head is hurting now!!!

You can easily unbalance the truck with unmatched spring rates and ride heights front and back and thats before you even start

with shockers / dampers etc.

Different set ups will also alter on road and off road handling and response in different ways, what suits a road car will be

rubbish off road and vice versa, the best set up will always be some form of compromise, unless you are building your truck for

dedicated off road etc. I would say that a standard 460 series will be slightly biased towards off road ability and handling where

as a G55AMG will be baised towards on road etc. You can't have the best of both!!!

If you PM me your email i will send what front and rear spring rate charts i have for the 460 series...

Hope this helps

Gav

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Re: Springs

Just to add to the noise.. from a non MB supply point of view.. when looking for springs for my SWB 460.. I worked out spring rates from the technical specifiations and did a spread sheet to look at... somewhere!

 

Shocks were QH Lipmesa

http://www.qha.com/html/brands/lipmesa.htm

 

 

Springs were GKN

http://www.gknservice.de/PCP/e/pcp_pr_federtech_e.html

http://www.gknservice.com/gb/passenger_cars/download/catalogues.html

http://www.gknservice.com/fileadmin/user_upload/Brochures/English/Catalogue_Coil_Springs_SPIDAN.pdf page 254 of 440 and have Heavy Duty versions for rear.

For SWB 300GD front GKN 49713/yellow =Cabrio/van, 49715/brown =station wagon,

Form of spring = straight, open/closed ends, maybe tapered.

 

For SWB rear std =476 lbs/in

http://www.oscaro.com/jeu-de-2-ressorts-de-suspension-gkn-48994-645726-188-p = 286 Euro/pr

GKN Spidan 48994 type AA

KILEN :  57108

LESJÖFORS :  4256827

MERCEDES-BENZ :  460 324 0304

MONROE :  SP0460

ROC :  CS0672

SUPLEX :  19091

KME 24067231 (who are part of Lesjofors and Eurocar parts supply at £64ea)

Maybe these too; maybe these are 463/van springs

SACHS 997485

TRISCAN 8750 2373

K&F 319816

KAGER 84-0527

Diamètre 1 = 13mm, 2= 15.9 mm 3 = 13 mm, outside diameter = : 175 mm, length =  489 mm

1 spring, 5.5kg, rear axle, marking stripe “Green”

 

For SWB rear van (and most swb 461/463) = 816 lbs/in = +71% on std

http://www.oscaro.com/jeu-de-2-ressorts-de-suspension-gkn-49418-647343-188-p 254 Euro/pr

GKN Spidan 49418 (form AA) 101 Euro’s

KILEN :  57113

KYB :  RA5353  (£52 ea iVat ex carriage), £39.40iVeC camskills – not available in UK

LESJÖFORS :  4256836  (£79 ea iVat .. carriage £5.5-8 ea)

MERCEDES-BENZ :  460 324 0704  184 Euro online pricing

MONROE :  SP0488

ROC :  CS3655

SUPLEX :  19095

Diameter 1=11.5m, 2= 18mm, 3=11.5mm, OD 170, Length 447mm, 1 spring 5.2kg, “yellow/orange”

 

 

For SWB rear heavy duty (all swb) = 952 lbs/in = +100% on std, +16% on van

http://www.oscaro.com/jeu-de-2-ressorts-de-suspension-gkn-49714-648313-188-p 305 Euro/pr

GKN Spidan 49714 (type AA)

KYB :  RA5354  (£52 ea iVat ex carriage)

MERCEDES-BENZ :  460 324 0504

SUPLEX :  19094

 Diamètre 1 [mm] : 12,75, 2= 18,3 mm 3 = 12,7 mm, outside diameter = : 185 mm, length =  430 mm

1 spring, 6kg, rear axle, marking stripe “White”

 

At 1ton payload this will be 20mm taller to van and stock spring, so 60mm travel not 25mm

Std is 10mm longer than van/hdty, van and std cross at 1t payload.

 

firebolt
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Re: Springs

Cheers Guys,

i have down loaded the spring rate card ,

and i like the progressive working from the like original wounded springs,

the ones from suplex are identical,  soft preload, but still able to carrie some load,

i'm driving most off the time empty, to a harsh suspention is not needed, and i want it a little soft

i liked the way my car was before i mounted 120 ponds off iron and steel to be the new  front bumper / winch

it is now dropping the soft preload to much in, and you notice this driving,

i don't want to go over reacting with HD springs, just on step higher,

i have looked at the suplex replacement numbers , and compaired there diameter, and lenght

( i really can get these cheap, for retailer pricing ) 

will report back my findings