steering play
hello, this has been an issue for a while I've just been living with but as its now been mentioned on the MOT I think its time to get it looked at.
My G has free play detected at the steering wheel, whats the most common cause?
I looked on club g wagon at the front axel service but I don't want to jump to commiting to this as the parts alone cost around £500.
hı matt.
did you try tightening the bolt on the steering box. loosen the outer nut and give the allen key headed bolt in the centre of the nut a slight turn, should do the trick..
rgds hus
Hi Matt
check all the tie rod /drag link ends and the U/Js in the lower steering column and if you do get to adjusting the steering box it is best done with the wheels off the ground to check that you have full movement left to right after adjusting>>>>> and do it mil by mil because it is very easy to adjust the rusty part of the pitman shaft into the bottom pressure oil seal resulting in a leak that costs a lot of time money and effort to repair.....
Clean the shaft at the bottom of the steering box , when you tighten the adjuster it pulls the shaft up into the seal.... including rust and dirt, which will make your box leak, I found out to my cost!!
I'm rebuilding a 460 and this was a subject area I dealt with a few weeks ago.
In the end, I decided to bit the bullet and just replace the complete PS box with a new one, but it was an expensive option (in the context of the restoration though it was worth it) and if the thing isn't worn on the ballscrew then adjusting the preload bolt at the top should increase the preload and take some of the slop out. Its definitely worth trying.
You can see how much play I had here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voPlmL3pREs bear in mind that this was just at the PS box end -there was substantial play in the draglink and tie rod, both of which had their own issues in this regard.. made the steering interesting! Your MOT should have picked this up if there was a problem there though.
Anyway, trying the preload adjustment is worthwhile. As fixwinn says, adjust top screw VERY carefully (sub mm) and check for leaks. Its easy to overdo it (super sensitive).
From what others have advised about 50% of the time they do leak. If it does , then replacing seal at bottom is not super involved (couple of hours labour to get it off, pull the arm, replace the seal and put it all back together), though at that point you might do better to get a rebuilt unit if you can find one, though MB are quoting stupid money (like £1750+VAT!) - you should be able to get one for £300 if you shop around.
If you are DIY'ing, its all fairly straightforward, but you'll need access to someone who can pull the Pitman arm (around 10T will be required) and when you re-torque you'll need a wrench that goes to 400Nm
If you have got it all apart, the other things that are worth doing are the PS filter (I think MB service interval for the 460s is 30K, but they often don't get done) and have a good look at the hard lines as they are often quite corroded. In the next week or so I will post a how-to on what I did to replace these with stainless lines and braided hose.
thanks for the help,
I had a look today and when i released the securing bolt i realised that the hex bolt was seized to it.
As i didn't have anything to loosen it at work today i just tightened it back on however the steering play was noticably worse on the way home.
The play in my box is similar to the video but not quite as bad.
Is it okay to completely remove the adjustment screw so i can free it off?
Yeah on the MOT it just said free play at the wheel, checked all the tie rod/drag link ends.
I'm not quite sure what you are refering to by 'securing bolt' ?
Be very careful about making significant adjustments (more than a couple of mm) to the adjustment bolt though. It changes the preload on the ballscrew by adjusting the height of the main shaft and a tiny adjustment to the screw has a huge effect.
To adjust properly it you really want to have both front wheels off the ground and then it needs sub-mm changes each time
Hi Matt
the hex nut is a lock nut
using the correct size allen key hold the centre threaded part and loosen the locknut then turn the centre thread ONE MIL clockwise tighten the locknut and check the play ..repeat as required ..the steering wheel should move freely right to left to right smoothly with no stiffness..test the movement with the engine running / both wheels off the ground
DO NOT try to remove the threaded section or the locknut completely
okay, my problem is that they are seized together so i need to free them off before i can do anything. i'll give them a soak in copious amount of wd40 first
Just worth emphasising that Fixwin suggests changes in MIL not mm (one MIL is about .25 mm)
tried again today but both nuts are well and truely seized together and its rounded the hex nut trying to free it from the lock nut.
When i inititally undid the lock nut, the hex nut also came free, so it has either snapped or is just turning with the lock nut, i'm going to say just turning as it is still an effort to undo the lock nut more, still requires a spanner on it.
Its going to go to my mechanic but i'm guessing i now need to replace these bolts, probably worth doing the seal and filter while i'm at it.
tried again today but both nuts are well and truely seized together and its rounded the hex nut trying to free it from the lock nut.
When i inititally undid the lock nut, the hex nut also came free, so it has either snapped or is just turning with the lock nut, i'm going to say just turning as it is still an effort to undo the lock nut more, still requires a spanner on it.
Its going to go to my mechanic but i'm guessing i now need to replace these bolts, probably worth doing the seal and filter while i'm at it.
I need a recon steering box, or to get mine done.
Can people point me in the right direction?
Simon666 i can't pm you because it won't let me compose or reply to messages.
That's not great news.
I had exactly this problem a few weeks ago and finding *good* reconditioned unit is tricky.
One of the problems is actually knowing whether what you are buying as 'reconditioned' has *actually* been striped and re-built, or (as is often the case with companies that provide these kind of services) has just been cleaned up with a new seal and adjusted to 'feel' OK.
As I learned, the underlying problem is that for many old Gs with 150+ miles on the clock, the steering boxes have had to work hard and as a consequence there is wear on the ballscrew (worm type gear) that can't be fixed (the part is no longer available from MB). You can take some of the slop out with the pre-load adjustment, but the wear is still there and will return.
More info here http://www.gwoa.co.uk/forum/steering-play-how-much-too-much
Note that in the end, I *didn't* buy a reconditioned unit from either of the two sources I spoke to as I was lucky enough to find a new box from a one of the 508 MB Trucks and had the shaft and pitman arm (which is longer on the G) switched over to the G version.
I'm still not clear on the position re. new units from MB. AFAIK the box didn't change throughout much of the 463's life and even today I'm not sure what would be involved in buying a box from one of the current models (or more recent ones at least) and fit that to the chassis which is essentially dimensionally the same today as it was in the late 80s (minor changes to body mounts/ shock towers but the main ladder is the same). This would be expensive though I think.
I'd probably try those the powersteeringonline people and see how you get on.
Steering box on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MERCEDES-BENZ-G-WAGON-STEERING-BOX-/170963800937?ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123
this is a GWOA member you could try and PM him???
Try Eurocarparts - they appear to list a steering box for the G.
LS2 steering box is fitted to 'Dusseldorf'' 508 ,608 etc vans as well ...maybe someone has new old stock...shaft is different length as above
As ever if you can find a competant man the box CAN be rebuilt for 3 or 4 hundred £'s
Have always managed to adjust my own on the rare occasion it was needed
Looks like steering box's are going to be an ongoing Achilles heels for us G owners.
Found this with ref to the LS 2 box just to add more info. Bit of a long document but the box is shown as picture ref G2 on about page 33
http://www.pss.co.uk/pss-catalogue.pdf
At least you can see what it looks likel.
Ta
And here is a refurbishment option from Germany.
http://www.german-spob.de/start.php?name=STEERING-GEAR-BOX---LS2B,-W460,-W461,-W463,-REGENERATED&language=eng&seite=gebrauchtteile&seite_gebr=modellspez_warengrp&Baugruppe_GET=11&bg_name_GET=STEERING&TYP_ID=666&MOD_ID_GET=75&MODNAME_GET=G-CLASS%20(W461)&TYPNAME1=230%20GE%20(461.238,%20461.239)&artikel_id=13015&art_name=LENKGETRIEBE%20-%20LS2%20B%20SERVOLENKUNG,%20W460,%20W461,%20W463,%20REGENERIERT
If you can copy and paste all that. They want €900 or best offer. Website is www.german-spob.de if you want to search for the part.
Ta
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thanks for the quick responses! I shall have s look and let you know!