Steering play - how much is too much?
Since I found out I'm going to have to replace both drag link and tracking arms, I got thinking about steering play more generally, which to be honest isn't great in my truck. Even with uprated G500 steering damper, 'wobble' (which isn't helped by the 33.5" tires I know) is a feature on uneven tarmac.
Some of it is down to play in the links, but the majority is in the steering box I think (truck has done 150K miles), have a look at the video below and see what you think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voPlmL3pREs
At the steering wheel end this translates into several inches (4-6 maybe) of movement.
I know that there is the possibility of adjusting the small screw on the top of the unit (I also understand that often the box then leaks as a result). My feeling though is that this is more slop than this nut will fix.
First question then is how bad does this play look to anyone else? Second is what are my options? A rebuild or a recon I guess?
Having read the 'Checking and reconditioning' section in the workshop manuals, rebuilding it looks like too much work for me to do.. on the other hand, I'm always a bit hesitant about just how well 'exchange' recon units are - do they actually get rebuilt to MB specs using OEM parts for example?
Hi
I just dropped a reconditioned steering box in my G after running out of adjustment and having less play that it looks in your vid. The drive is not just a bit better... its a lot better.
I got a 'reasonable' condition steering box from the G guys in Malvern then had it recone'd by the only guys he trusts to do it - I did it direct and by co-incidence it was someone who came recommended by another source - I can't remember who off the top of my head, but can get it if you need it.
Remember the one I had redone was of a car with about 80k on it, not my own which is now sat in the garage. I think it set me back £265, but again can check the actual figure, for the recon and service was almost same day.
I think they are pretty re-conable as long as the main steering pin is not knackered - which yours may be - but Fixwing had one of those when I was hunting round for the box originally - and he will know what it is actually called!
If you need to know any more do let me know.
Ta
Simon
EHS Engineering are the guys. [url=http:// http://www.powersteeringonline.co.uk/] http://www.powersteeringonline.co.uk/[/url]
£250 to strip and re-build the steering box, new seals etc. 12 month warranty, turnaround in a week. Honest guys by all accounts. Only caveat is main steering pin as Simon says. G Class centre guys advised changing filter on steering pump at the same time.
Decided to go with MB parts for the drag link and tie bar as 2 weeks is too long and without someone else's experience to know whether the GFG ones are any good - it's too much of a risk should they not work out.
Yep... That was them. £250 might be before VAT :-). You won't believe how much better it drives, well hopefully!
Ta
Simon
I'd be hopeful that it would, but a second line of thinking following another conversation I have had with someone who has a brand new LS2 steering box for sale which is actually the same model with shorter shaft from one of the old Varios..
His 'warning' was that most of the time, old MB boxes with a lot of play (which mine has) can't be reconditioned. The wear on the ballscrew and recirculating bearings is too great and although 'in therory' you can rebuild to switch the screw/ change bearings and bushings and even go up sizes in ballbearings, in practice it doesn't get done because the cost and time is prohibitive.
He says that at best, most of the 'recon' services will try to swap out better-for-worse units, changing seals and gaskets, tidy them up a bit visually knowing that it will get most through 12 months (which I have to say *is* the experience I had with a couple of recon alternators and starter motors a while back). Worse still, often the 'couple of hundred quid' will get you the answer that your unit can't be fixed leaving you (havng spent the money) to then try to find a 'less worse' s/h unit to start again with.
Obviously he has a brand new unit (and consequent price tag) to sell and so have a vested interest, although I don't discount the fact that he might be straight on this.
Were I to buy this unit (and the shaft would also need to be swapped == more $$), I would at least be guaranteed another full life of service from it. It would cost me about 2.5 times the cost of the recon route. On the other hand, if the recon route goes wrong, I could easily spend the same and still only get a unit that holds together for a couple of years (with the big tires I have, perhaps less).
Having spend to much time and money to bring my G back to original condition, I'm loathed to cut corners on this now. On the other hand, there comes a point...
What I don't quite understand is why these aren't still available. Looking at the EPC, even the newer 463s of recent years seem to use the same basic design.. Is it perhaps the availability of RHD versions?
Hi
I did see one on a US site, but that seems to have gone and was on over $900, but stated new ones from Merc were over £3k! Which seems a bit steep to me.
Have your tried Guido Mateus who has access to a lot of stuff as he is based in Germany. He has a website, but sells through German EBay. I must still have his contact details somewhere as I got some wheel spacers from him - a number of people on here know him.
As you say after the job you have done, you don't want to cut corners and I know the feeling. G's seem to get to an age when one after another, all the major parts go! So far I am on a remanufactured engine (wld have swapped if I could have planned more) reconditioned steering box - grumbling gearbox. New front hubs/bearings, 2nd set of rear suspension etc. etc. Much better to get it all done in one hit and then have another 25 yrs of happy motoring!
Could luck in your search - I am surprised it's not available from Merc - perhaps as you say it's a generic part to a number of vehicles so is hard to find on the EPC
Ta
Simon
I know Guido, though I haven't contacted him.
My take on the age problem is that if the vehicle is worth saving (mine fortunately was generally in great shape with just ususal rear quarter, wing and shock perches to replace with most of the cost around all the little bits and pices) then - so long as you plan to keep it, any investment will pay back with another 30 years of life in it probably.
There are some things though that are going to need alternative work-arounds as spares get difficult to find. This steering box problem looks like one of those. I would have thought that it should be *fairly* straight-forward to find a replacement that could be adapted (perhaps from MB commercial vehicle range) with appropriate brackets though .. I guess shafts/ splines will be the key question.. maybe they are unique.
hi fcp,
I went down the route of the 2-way adjustable one. they should be standard sprinter/MB-mass-market parts: that is what my one is, but I sourced it from a different guy in germany. definitely ask the question before ordering; can't imagine they wouldn't use standard parts.....but you never know.
Good luck,
Ph
You are right that there is a huge difference between reconditioned, where only knackered components are replaced and everything else is just roughly cleaned up and re built, this is done to a minimum cost and with a view to just getting through the given warranty period and Remanufactured where however the unit is rebuilt to an as new condition with all major wear components replaced to a set list regardless of condition and basically only the main housings are reused. The former are often just as expensive as the latter if you’re not careful!!!
I am sure if you placed an order for a box that MB would find you one...
There are too many G’s out there in Military service with that box fitted for them to be No Longer Available!
They are however a bit steep on the old price front.....
A461 460 01 01 fits yours at £2815 + vat
Or supersedes to
A461 460 06 01 at £2815 + vat
Or
A461 460 01 01 80 as the exchange reman version £???? £1750 + vat as a guesstimate
Nothing is in stock at MB anywhere at the minute.
The LS2 fits lots of MB product from the G to the old 70's LP vans, T1 vans and some newer Vario's etc. although there are also lots of variants and not all are interchangeable in true MB fashion.
The version in the G is an LS 2 B but even in G form there are different options in 765.502 and 765.503.
The 460’s and early 461’s being mainly fitted with the 765.502 when power steered and the later 461’s and 463’s being fitted with the 765.502 in general.
The main differences seem to be internal ones, steering box internals are not my strong point, but not the shaft, the other upper “piston” section differs between types and obviously between LHD and RHD.
I am sure an old school mechanic or someone at the side of the road in Africa would make it work but most UK technicians would run a mile!!!
Most of the major internal components are available from Germany too....
Other types….
765.500 LS 2 Physically Different ….LP, T1 etc.
765.501 LS 2A Physically Different ….T1, Vario etc.
765.502 LS 3B G Type As Above
765.503 LS 3B G Type As Above
Cheers
Gav
As ever Gav, great on the detail :-)
My thinking right now is to buy a rebuilt one from a reputable source (I've taken a couple of reference points from the classic car restoration scene) which will run to £250 or so.
Once that's in, I'm quite tempted to take mine apart and just see what is involved in rebuilding it.
The workshop manuals do cover it, but refer to only the bearings, shaft piston and housing cover as available spares. Obviously EPC doesn't have that kind of detail on what those part numbers are (only seal and gasket kit AFAIK).
maybe contact www.puch.at they may be able to help you
to use there words we dont do recon (spray & pray)
i have contact details it would be done at the graz factory
adrian
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Thanks Simon, I'll give them a call tomorrow. Peter kindsly PM'd me details on what he has done in the past for thses, but reading around some more this PM, it looks to me as though the play is exceptional and a rebuild is probably the best way forward.
Tonight though.. I have to decide whether to buy MB drag link arm and tie bar or go for the 2-way adjustable ones from the german co GFG http://www.gfg-shop.de/shop/index.php?cat=c62_Hoeherlegung.html
I'm leaning toward the German guys I think, though I need to know whether the ends themselves are standard MB parts. Other downside is that they are quoting 2 weeks lead time :-(