Wagen gearbox output flange.
Please excuse this first post from a non G owner but member of the MBOC who needs some help.
I'm doing a diesel conversion and fitting an OM606-962 with Getrag 5speed to a 1981 R107SL. This requires that I have a new propshaft made and it would be a whole lot easier if the gearbox had a flanged output rather than the standard car spider.
My question to you is... Does any Wagen have a six bolt output flange as standard (all I've seen is eight) and what is the diam of said flanges and the PCD of the bolts please? The 'propshaft guy' is suggesting a 100 DIN flange and shaft. This has 6 bolts at 84mm PCD.
Do any of you kind chaps happen to have a spare flange going begging? Or know where to get one. I could go to Merc but I'm not sure at this stage if it will all work and it seems a huge waste of spendoolicks if it doesn't.
Thank-you.
Derek.
All G's are 8 hole I think...earlier cars were 6...interchangable...vans were 6 some interchange...easiest is get a donor spider prop from breaker and get a prop shop to put it on yr shaft...£100 ?? Google for a shop near you..there are plenty [ 2 in Bristol..not that I trust them.
I can reccomend the guys at Propshaft Services very highly (they sorted out a badly bodged UJ for me earlier in the summer). They will do mail order (based in Feltham, London) and should be able to provide all of the parts you need and build (or rebuild) and balance a shaft for you complete with whatever flange you desire.
Some early G's were 6 hole flange, but I am unsure of the PCD etc.
Have a look here, this G 'box has a 6 hole flange.
http://g-manufaktur.de/shop/product_info.php?info=p432_4-Gang-Getriebe-4...
Cheers Scott
Thanks Scott.
http://g-manufaktur.de/shop/product_info.php?info=p432_4-Gang-Getriebe-4...
Any idea what the WDB number of the original vehicle this would have come from? Does '460' refer to the Wagen?
Or...I can look it up in the EPC if I have the gearbox code. eg 717.412 or whatever.
Derek.
460 is the part time 4x4 G wagons .. start about 1979
461 = worker/army G wagon.. early ones are 460 based, later ones are 463 based.
463 is the full time 4x4 G wagons .. start about 1991
6 flange was only on the early cars.. first 2-3 year?
So that 4 speed gearbox will be a "Merc" steel gearbox off an early 230GE or 240GD at best guess.. there was an option for a Getrag 5 speed but as it was an option it tends to turn up on the higher spec 300GE or 300GD vehicles ... and I think the 5 speed option turned up later after the first revision when they went to the bigger output flanges.
They both take special flanged metric fine M8 Bolts;
Prop bolts M8x1x22 A319.990.06.01
Prop nut M8x1 N910113 008007
I took a 5 speed Getrag out and fitted a 5 speed MB steel van gearbox.. the output flange was a different length between them so I had to put a 10mm or so spacer in when replacing the van output flange.
A 461 227 = 230GE with 5 spd MB;
A 602 262 11 45 = Output shaft flange = 115 Euro
Parts for 460 output flanges;
460 280 GE with 4 speed = A 460 260 03 17 = output shaft flange 100mm = 145 Euro
460 300 GD with 4 speed = A602 262 08 45 = output shaft flange 90mm = no stock
460 300 GD with Getrag = A 000 262 25 45 = output shaft flange = I have .. so no price!
So I guess the smaller flange you are looking for is A602 262 08 45 which MB have no stock of ??... obsolete part.. but try your MB dealer as my info might be out of date. Also check what gearbox it was fitted to at the dealer .. it is easy in EPC (sorry mine is not working at the moment)
For Gearboxes;
MB 4 speed = G1/17 711.2 (G1/18 711.1).. sorry no MB part number
Getrag 5 speed = GL275 part 717.420
461 merc 5 speed = G1/18-5/4.7 part 711.117
Van merc 5 speed = G1/18-5/4,7 part 711.113 = normal gears
Van merc 5 speed = G1/18-5/6,15 part 711.110 = slow gears
My notes from the gearbox change I did on the output flanges;
Output flange
The van has a different bolt pattern to the 460/461 so you need to change it.
Getrag 300GD is same length as Van output flange but the seal area is shorter. Easy option is to make spacer about 5.5mm (minimum) to 6.5mm (to make same) to 10mm (will just move sealing area out a bit) long to space it out.; Internal Diameter 29.2mm minimum (tight over splines) to 31.4mm (same as ID of flange); Outside Diameter 40mm minimum to 46mm maximum. You could not turn down flange as there is an undercut at end of seal area and it seems this area is at least ground and is certainly chrome plated on the vans Note early G’s had 90mm flanges but most are 100m,m flanges. Alternatively 461 output flange = A 602 262 11 45 = 115 Euro.
Alternatively 460 output flange off a 4 speesd should fit.
You need a deep 12 point 30mm (?) socket to remove flange from Getrag and I had to turn the Draper one down as OD was too large. I had to make a Prop flange holding tool (used two of the holes and with a bit of luck had holes to match the two different flange patterns).
Great post...thank-you.
I also have the EPC so can look closer at things. It's a 100mm flange I need to match to the 100din flange to be supplied on the new shaft. This supplied flange has a 57mm female spigot and 6 bolts on 84mm PCD.
The flange A460 260 --- looks to be a different pattern from mine (I know the EPC can be vague here) with a much longer nose. I would need to re-extract the spider from my box for another look. I made my own socket from a thinwall 30mm parted off and welded to a deep extension. A bit of flatbar did for a holding tool;.
The A000 262 25 45 looks to be closer bet with its shorter nose. Chasing it back through the EPC shows it fits to a 717.420/21/22 which would tally cos my (late 1980's) Getrag box is the 'dogleg' 717.450 from the same series. The one thorn is...looking at a 460 300D the EPC is showing bolts A319.990.06.01 to be 'number reqd X8' although the shaft shown has 6 holes.
CONFUSED of Bathgate...
edit. There's maybe too many ifs and buts in this and I certainly don't want to go spending big bucks when it might turn out to be the wrong thing. Maybe I should just stick to this idea...
Derek.
Yes the Getrag one is the right length but definitely 8 bolts.. have a prop somewhere I could measure PCD off if you want... I had to make it 10mm longer to fit the steel MB gearbox. Checking my photos but cannot find them side by side which is odd.
I could never understand the reason for 8 bolt flanges...overkill..its not as if there was the torque there to rip them out.
I could never understand the reason for 8 bolt flanges...overkill..its not as if there was the torque there to rip them out.
this is the flange i have designed to make the 6 speed boxes connect to the g wagen 8 bolt propshaft.
Propshaft Porn **Should be restricted viewing only**
PS even more S*XY in the flesh
Thx Mike for the preview !
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Thanks. I read a thread on the good things at Propshaft Services however, I'm already commited to Dunning and Fairbank...but thanks anyway. It's not a rebuild I need but a complete new shaft as I'm having to do away with the center bearing. As it stands I'll have to use an adaptor plate to convert the three legged spider to the recommended 100 DIN flange at both ends and I would dearly like to have a flange at the front instead.