Well that was a bit hairy - swapping ends! *UPDATED* with video *AND Analysis*
Just spun my truck almost 180 turning left at traffic lights doing about 15MPH and we don't even have any snow or ice yet!
Something is wrong with it, that's for sure!
A few miles before I had engaged 4wd as I went up a muddy lane.. When I disengaged though, the truck felt 'heavy' - as though the parking break had been left partially engaged - when you took your foot off the accelerator and pushed the clutch in the vehicle slows as if you were breaking slightly..
Anyway, I had no choice but to get home and then as I turned left into the road just before my driveway and the back and front suddently changed ends.
I'll put it up on stands and take a look tomorrow. Thoughts tonight are:
1. Nothing to do with xfer box (i.e. coincidence) and 4WD unless there is some way that it could have failed to actually disengage 4wd when the lever is moved back.
2. Catastrophic wheel bearing failure? would have expected to hear that. Same for diff.
3. Failure of some part of a rea rdrum break - possible.. It certainly felt like it was being braked.. I think I could also smell a slight burning.. difficult to be sure.
4. Something interfering with one or other of the handbreak cables - quick look and I dont' think so, will investigate tomorrow.
Anyone any other ideas?
Glad you weren't anywhere near where I am. Could have made one hell of a mess (!!!??!!) Seriously though, doesn't sound good and hope you get it sorted (cheaply)
Almost certainly the 4wd was still engaged, yes may have been selected to 2wd, but with tension on the drivetrain it will not have actually disengaged. Nothing to fix!
Yes, the lever may have been in S, but the gear still engaged, sometimes it will take a few turns either way to release the tension for the gear to disengage.
fcp wrote:
"A few miles before I had engaged 4wd as I went up a muddy lane.. When I disengaged though, the truck felt 'heavy' - as though the parking break had been left partially engaged - when you took your foot off the accelerator and pushed the clutch in the vehicle slows as if you were breaking slightly.".
The muddy lane may not have been soft enough to 4wd, the heavy feeling, I suspect, was transmission wind-up. The sudden release of that wound-up energy possibly was the result of the vehicle slipping, just like a wound up elastic band would.
A simple rule of off roading when it comes to using your toys in the cab, "engage when needed and disengage when not required".
4wd should have been engaged, not simply because you were on a muddy lane but when you would have lost traction. After the loose terrain was passed, the 4wd should have been disengaged. Here it is import to read the road conditions and experience will teach you that.
Hopefully, you may not have suffered any damage.
Cheers,
Hi.
Re the ways to get rid of wind up, my understanding is that it comes off more during changes in direction, so straight line may not sort it quickly, whereas turning/weaving does, but I'm no expert!
I have a feeling you had a case of 'few things coming together' which added up to a big moment. Wet, cold, bfg's and some wind up left in the drivetrain, and not least the SWB has got a very short wheelbase relative to its height and weight - we couldn't get it on a scissor lift at the garage this week as its WB was a good 50cm shorter that the carolla hatch next to it.
So hopefully nothing mechanical after all the work you've done - I nearly lost mine by deciding to turn into a garage at the last minute in the wet at about 15mph what followed was a very unexpected 'tank slapper' and yes I have all terrains on!
Glad your ok though
One final thought, before I exceed my limited expertise, given you have a 460, as do I, I am not sure there can be any issue regarding still being in 4WD despite 2WD being selected as, unlike the 463, it' an entirely mechanical process.
No electronics holding off for 'just the right moment' etc. I am also assuming you didn't have your diff locks on, but if so that would contribute.
Ta
Simon
it can only be ,collapsed wheel bearing,brake linings becoming unbonded and jamming the hub,the brake backplate fixings failing and letting it all jam against itself with a nut or fixing stuck into the lining( ring me if you need bits i am going to hampshire later in my g and trailer )or a real wild card the diff breaking up internally (star and planetary self destruction) only jamming one side or handbrake cable getting caught up and yanked on/ or really obscure but seen it the rubber brake hose collapsing internally and holding the brake on ,but the way in which the system is piped this would lock both not just the one side -somewhere in amongst that lot is the culprit (i hope) -mike
I would prefer to wait until, after you have stripped down the drum.
You are wrong in your assumption of winding the brakes PM me your email address.
I have just completed an article on handbrake adjustment awaiting to be posted onto the forum but this will come out on our new server
In the meantime I can send you my draft to read through, that will tell you on how to adjust the brakes shoes and proper handbrake adjustment.
Cheers,
ben , i just checked a new set of genuine perrot g wagen shoes that are in the workshop and the rivet holes with unused area are the same as you confirmed , the brake performed as if it snatched and locked itself on this is an indication possibly of the shoes leading edges being presented at an unusual angle -hence the grab -check that all the assemblies for auto/manual adjustment /retaining clips and springs are correct and not transposed ,it is very easily done (the new /alternative shoes is a good idea) if you are brave do a side to side swap and see if you nearly crash in the other direction! (joking)
put it all together and give the brakes a good old I.T.U. and see what gives ,if they have been relined recently i wonder if the compound/friction material is too soft ? hence its potential behaviour for grabbing /or if the brake was dragging and creating excess heat then making a grab likely?? atb mike
yes that sounds a good call ,i used to drive a little old 7.5 ton ford d series horse lorry and the brakes were murder for grabbing when cold -really snatchy -once some heat got into the drums and linings -all was well -we did a full reline on the front axle where the problem lay and hey presto no more trouble -must of been a poor compound as the drums were not skimmed and were found not to be oval- the self locking is a well known and nasty it can be caused by the chamfer on the leading edges being too small or the taper of the lining being incompatible with the diameter of the drum /can be made worse after a drum skim /check max wear allowance spec?-mike
Glad you found the culprit!
yes they can be tail happy ,the lwb 460 can be a bit naughty also .when you put the 606 in with the myna pump and holset hx35 you will have a 2 ton tvr ..
the w463 can skid in ice too despite full time 4x4, can be interesting, glad you have found the culprit and rather easier than the alternative
yes the torque surge is huge and i can make my lwb go a bit 'tokyo drift' in the wet rather easily... 330nm std my one 350 ish and 2 wd and a wet slippy junction ,when tony b and i drove to meet up with spider at andover we got crossed up in the wet powering out onto the sliproad for the a303 . basically it could bite you if you do not catch it, as they are heavy old buzzards and the weight really starts working against you like an early porsche 911 (spin like a hammer on a shiny floor)
ben, maybe you should think about the rear disc conversion i am doing as it will be better for your motorsport application??
it's ok ,all good fun - jacky ickx did ok on the paris dakar with his drumbraked 460 so...
I had something very similiar happen after my rear shoes were re-lined. Mechanic put the push rod back in the wrong way round and this caused the shoes to 'over adjust' and jam against the drum. only happens once the auto-adjuster has operated for a while. Just a thought.
Chris
Yes that would have been interesting!
Whatever it is, I'm sure it will be sortable easily enough.. I'm fortunate enough to be able to do most work myself so labour is cheap :-)
It was an unexpected event though.. very fortunate that noone was behind me really. It was good lesson in how quickly, once traction is lost, a SWB vehicle with high CG and little mass at the rear (no seats or anything in the back) can get out of shape.. I've spun a few cars over the years (not on the road for the most part!) and this was a whole lot quicker that I'd have expected. The Mud Terrain tires probably don't help either (great in mud, poor on wet, cold tarmac)
On reflection I suppose I could have chosen not to have driven the vehicle back after it started to feel strange.. but to be frank it the sensation of drag was quite subtle and - not enough to think it very serious.
Anyway, alls well that ends well. Noone huts, truck OK, lessons learned and we'll find out actually what went wrong tomorrow :-)