OM603 reliability issues in 1990 463 SWB
Hi all, I hope you won't mind this trans Atlantic intrusion. I know some of you are on the US forum as well but since 463 diesels are as rare as hen's teeth here in the states, I thought this might be a better place for questions regarding the OM603 engine.
I am looking at a 1990 SWB 300GD. There are a lot of bad things being said about the OM 603 engine in the states. I think this was due to its limited introduction in 1987 in the sedans where heads (#14 version) frequently cracked. Mercedes pulled this engine out of the market unitl the 90's due to this issue and marketing concerns. So, the question is, is this a reliable engine? These are much more common in Europe so I suspect you guys/gals might be a better judge. From past posts, I know there are several champions of this engine on this list.
Here is one quote from the Benzworld list which has me worried. I spoke to Warren about these items and he feels sure this is a fair assessement.
a 617 should burry 2 maybee 3 602 engines.
I base my opinion on 17 years experience as an independent Mercedes mecanick specialising in diesels
have seen too many 602 engines with
blown head gaskets
cracked heads
spun bearings in fuel pump
bent conecting rods
blown vacuum pumps
broken belt tensioners
atc,etc
name any good engine.....it has a cast iron head
IMHO last real Mercedes car was built in 85 as
123 and 126 chassis diesels.
best G pre 89.
I am more familiar with the OM617 which has a great reputation but I wonder about the 603 and that aluminum head. The engine is more vulnerable to overheating because of this but I have also heard of IP issues. The hydraulic lifters are nice (no more valve adjustments) and the extra power a nifty extra.
The Gwagen I am lookng at has 230000KM - any concerns at this point on things which could need replacement? My intent is to run this vehicle on veggie oil (WVO) in the summer and biodiesel in the winter.
I also am aiming for simplicity - is there a great deal of difference between the OM617 an the 603 in this regard. We are still looking at non-computerized indirect injection engines right?
Thanks for a great forum and for any advice you might care to offer!
Adam
The man to answer your question is Roly. But from what I understand this is a great engine.
It needs to be revved to gain momentum but I had no problem to 100MPH on our way to stuttgart last year. I think rolys has done 177,000 miles and had no head gasket probs. But the thing they do suffer from is the radiators blocking up because the vains run horizontily they clogg up and I believe this would have a lot to do with head gaskets if not checked.
If you do buy remember it has not turbo so quick of the mark it wont be. Hope you enjoyed G-Wizz :wink:
My experience has been good with the engine but like any engine it needs to have been maintained correctly to be in top condition after 143 K miles. Is the one you are considering auto/ manual does it have a service history?
I read recently in the Mercedes Benz club UK magazine a bout a 124 series 300 D with 400 000 miles on it and no major problems.
I think the bad reputoation in the US is regarding the turbo version of 87. I don't believe you ever got the nonturbo version. The 350 turbo diesel also has a bad reputation everywhere because of major problems this often gets called the OM 603 too. (because it is :) ).
I recently had my hydraulic elements and my timing chain replaced by, arguably, one of the most knowledgable MB diesel mechanics in UK. He checked the timing of the crank/ camshaft prior to removing the timing chain to estimate the stretch (after 175 000 miles). He could not measure any. The elements do require replacement as they cause a ticking sound .
The 617 has 5 cylinders compared to 6 so the 603 revs more freely to 5000. It only has 113 Big hp s overheating is not a problem. Ian mentioned the radiator problems. I have replaced mine.
Summary. Just as reliable as 617 more powerful, less maintenance, no electrics.
If you slap on a turbo expect problems.
Thanks Roly,
This truck has the 4-speed auto attached. I believe you are right - in the US we only had the turbo version of the OM603.
This truck also has "extra fast axles" according to its data card. I am not sure what this means - were different axel ratios available? It also has widened track with the alloy wheels. So did Graz do something different with the axles on trucks with alloy wheels? It seems improbable but....
I'll enquire as to records on the engine. How long would one expect the hydraulic lifters to last? Good news on the timing chain stretch issue.
Adam
I have not been able to find it on my local newsstand :shock:
you wont becuase its our club that produces it for club memebers only. There will soon be an option on our new website to pay by paypal for subscriptions
The axle widths and ratios were changed when the 255/75 -15 wheels were fitted.
The 205-16 used 4.11 and the 255/75 used 4.375. This allowed for the larger diameter of the 255s.(auto box ). Manual used 5.286.
The axles were widened by 25 mm per side to allow for clearance on the wider tyres also on the inside and the extended arches were fitted to cover the outside.
If you are looking at an auto with wide wheels then that is a lovely setup. I have lwb version and it is so smooth to drive. Superb control off road also.
Hydraulic elements -mine were ticking at 100,000m and I replaced them at 175,000 miles. I believe the valve timing slowly goes out as they get older so I think the performance improved when I got new ones. The cam need to come out for the job.
Economy is acceptable i get 28 mpg at 50 mph.
Check the idle is smooth and it doesn't blow smoke on acceleration or backing off at high revs.
Great car.
Roly
This truck also has "extra fast axles" according to its data card. I am not sure what this means - were different axel ratios available? It also has widened track with the alloy wheels. So did Graz do something different with the axles on trucks with alloy wheels? It seems improbable but....
Hi Adam,
I replaced my 1985 230GE with a 1991 300GD just 2 months ago. Bought it from Germany, it has done 311000 km, has 4sp automat, 3 doors and has 2 tank setup for running on SVO. What I've learned from internet is that OM603 non-turbo version is an extremely reliable engine when properly maintained and can go 500th km easily without any repairs needed. I'm currently running it on rapeseed oil and am extremely happy with the truck.
Mine has also "extra fast axles", that means axle ratio of i=4.111 With the speed of 110 kph it goes on 3500 revs approximately. Yes, G's have different axle ratios available. There is a good thread about it in benzworld G forum: http://www.benzworld.org/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=188308&posts=...
If you have the VIN code of the truck available you might want to check it with VIN decoder: http://www.mbclub.ru/mb/vin/index.html?lng=eng Lot's of interesting information...
Regards,
Kaur
Thanks all for the encouraging news. I never realized that the axles were wider for the alloy wheel trucks. I think often people swap wheels with no attention to this fact. The wheel bearings probalby suffer as a result.
Kaur - I'd be interested in pictures of your two tank set up if you have any. I presume your truck is left hand drive since it came from Germany? I will also be doing a two tank system to deal with the cold of Alaska. It is a bit of plumbing!
Thanks!
Adam
Kaur - I'd be interested in pictures of your two tank set up if you have any. I presume your truck is left hand drive since it came from Germany? I will also be doing a two tank system to deal with the cold of Alaska. It is a bit of plumbing!
Thanks!
Adam
Adam,
Yes, it's left hand drive. Unfortunately I don't have any pictures but I'll try to make some. My truck has a "conversion kit" installed from a German company called ATG. You can find more information from here: http://www.diesel-therm.com/veggie-kit.htm
As winters are quite cold here as well (it usually goes below -20 degree celsius for about a month each winter), I'm fortunate to have electric continuous-flow heater and heat exchanger installed with the kit.
Regards,
Kaur
Kaur,
I spent many hours one day in Tallin in 1992 at the train station and port mostly. It is a very pretty city and my wife and I had some nice ice cream at a cafe on the main square.
Thank you for the information on the veggie oil system. That company has a dealer in Washington State, just on the ohter side of Canada from us so that is good news. I plan on using waste veggie oil becasue in the USA, new veggie oil is still very expensive.
Adam
Adam,
Glad to hear that you liked Tallinn. Though a lot has changed here since 1992. Back then Tallinn still was very much a soviet union town, now many things have changed enormously better.
Veggie oil isn't that cheap over here either, about 0.7€ per liter. But diesel is getting close to 1€ per liter already.
You can find some pictures here: www.album.ee/tipcik
I don't much like that additional fuel tank there in the back and plan to replace with a flat one. Actually ORC.de has a nice one but it's rather expensive - becomes about 1500€ with shipping.
Kaur
Kaur,
Ah ha! I have been thinking the same thing about the flat tank. On a SWB, there is no room to spare. I think I will get a tank made locally but the filler bit is going to take some thought. Thanks for the pictures and you have the ORC pictures there too. Very nice!
Is there a heater in your system? It looks like the oil lines are not insulated. There are some nice systems which use coaxial oil lines so hot water heats them from the tank to the engine. Often the filter is also heated this way.
I really appreciate the pictures - I have not seen a OM603 modified this way and it is nice to see it all fits since there is so little room on the driver's side (unlike with the 617 engine).
I like your other vehicle in the pictures - good ground clearance and pretty rugged looking for tough terrain! :D
Some day I'll come see the new Estonia! Maybe in my G-wagen?
Adam
Is there a heater in your system? It looks like the oil lines are not insulated. There are some nice systems which use coaxial oil lines so hot water heats them from the tank to the engine. Often the filter is also heated this way.
That plastic tank is for pure diesel. Veggie oil goes to main tank and the oil lines of that one are heated.
I like your other vehicle in the pictures - good ground clearance and pretty rugged looking for tough terrain! :D
The other vehicle is for the sale currently. Let me know, if interested :D
Kaur
I'd love to buy that other vehicle but with all your help here, I just bought that 1990 300GD I was looking at. It will take a while to get it shipped up here from Washington State to Alaska. It will have to come by boat. Then its time to work on getting it to burn veggie oil.
Thanks all
sorted then, have you managed to sell the g500 yet :x
Peter,
No the G500 is still lurking about in my life but I think it wil move as the price drops - I'm down to asking $36500 now.
Alaska,
Sorry to arrive late at this thread but going back to the reliability issues of the naturally aspirated OM603 engine as fitted to the 1990 300 GD, I have nothing but praise for it. Mercedes produced millions of W124 saloons fitted with this engine in OM602 (250 D) and OM603 (300 D) form which were the first choice for taxi drivers all over Europe when Mercedes was the benchmark in terms of sheer engineering and construction quality (ah, the good old days!).
I have seen taxis doing the route from the Airport to the Maspalomas/Playa del Inglés area in Gran Canaria 24-hours non-stop in three shifts with mileages of 800,000 Kms with no other issues apart from the regular servicing.
I know that the OM 603 in a G-Wagen is slow but runs like clockwork (it is a pleasure to hear it ticking over) and I just love it!
Well done then!
Cheers,
Jesus,
Thanks for your encouragement. I knew you would come out in favor based on your previous posts. Its a good thing as the G500 just sold! I can't wait to hear that diesel running! It is a beautiful sound, I agree. I'd take that anyday over the 300 hp G500.
I'll have to take some pictures when it arrives up here and give you guys a link so you can see it. Not that it looks any different than any other early 90's SWB Gwagen but....)
Adam
the 6 pot 300 is certainly a sweet running engine, and can be abused, but my guess is your sure gonner miss that V8 power.
True, that V8 power was simply awesome. It was the quickest vehicle I have ever owned. It was a bit much really. After the biodiesel starts to flow into the 300GD, I think I will still be smiling, not from speed as I pass the petrol station, but from not having to pay $2.40 a gallon for premium gasoline! Besides, a diesel is something special.
my heart bleeds for you at $2.40 a gallon. We pay the equivalent to $7.32 for a gallon of unleaded. Now do you feel so guilty selling the G500. It might be cold where you live but fuel is the least of your worries. :cry:
Yikes! I am sorry for you guys! No wonder there are not many G500s over there. I will not let the fuel word cross my lips again here.:roll:
I hope diesel is less expensive. It is more expensive than regular petrol here which has always puzzled me. Oh well, now where do I start collectng waste veggie oil from.....
diesel is more expensive than petrol. In iran petrol is £0.12 a ltr and diesel £0.04 a ltr. :shock:
In iran petrol is £0.12 a ltr and diesel £0.04 a ltr. :shock:
Moving are you?
thinking about it, have an iranian working with us and he says I need to go over there, the women would love me, being blonde and broad. (english for fat). Just goes to show the tax we pay. Bastards. :evil:
Funny enough met an Iranian lady last night that sounds just like you "blonde and broad"
did she have blonde curly teeth, shoulders like boulders and an arse like a split pea. Sounds yummy.
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Good bit of info on the radiator. I can see where this is something worth dealing with as preventative maintenance. Do all 463 radiators have a similar issue?
I loved the G-Wizz and have been meaning to ask if you offer International Subscriptions. I have not been able to find it on my local newsstand :shock: