om603/606 replacing an om617
I have asked before about putting a six cylinder W124, 300D engine, (om603, I think) into a 460 as an upgrade to the om617. The idea was generally frowned upon, and an om617a was suggested as the most obvious choice. I don't disagree with the advise, but 617a's are extremely thin on the ground, so I was wondering again.
There was an engine in the mid 90's W124 300D cars, called the om606, I think, the cars had three, or four slats behind the indicator on the drivers wing. It had a six cylinder block, and a 24 valve head, and produced around 140 bhp. Does anyone know if this is simply the om603 block with the multivalve head fitted. And if it is, then back to the original question as to how hard or easy to fit this into a 460, possibly with the cars auto transmission. These would be easier to find over here, not neccessarily cheaply though.
Bob
yes its pretty much the same block, the big issue is the inlet manifold fouling the pass side shock mount, its a bit of a rascal.i have recently played engine swaps of all these engines,call me on 07790 183201 if you want more info.
I think you will find the head fouls on the brake booster and the exhaust / turbo fouls the steering column on the RHD vehicles. Better off starting with a 617A or 300 turbo diesel 12V
not seen any problems with brake servo contact, but dont forget the 603 and 606 engines both come n/a and turbo.
Do you not need to cut and re-stitch the chassis brackets for the engine mounts ?
Hi Bob,
Just a word of encouragement really.
If you can get the 24V unit to fit|Work, it's a beaut!!!
Recently sold my beloved W124 Estate Auto. Purred along. Had it for years, easily the best car I ever owned. Phenomenal reliabilityand refinement. 130,000 miles, barely run in!!
Cheers
tHANKS mARTIN FOR THE ENCOURAGEMENT, BUT i AM ONLY THINKING ABOUT POSSIBILITIES AT THIS STAGE. Sorry caps off. It seems people on the American forum are very much in agreement with you re this engine.
Bill can you explain more about the cutting and restitching
Roly I would love a 617a if I could find one, but it seems impossible, likewise I am not aware of which 3litre diesel 12v you are refering to.However I was talking about the om606 non turbo engine so at least I won't have the steering shaft fouling issue, I hope.
Mark I will give you a ring maybe tomorrow night thanks
Bob
I beleave the chassis mointing points for a 617/and a are in a diffrent position for a 603/606, this means cutting off and re welding to mount the engine correctly.
I have just checked he performance of my 617a conversion with the performance figures of the 290 TD as in the 461 the 617a has a slight edge on it and is set to improve by about 10%.
I thought you were talking about the turbo engine.
On my engine (single OHC) there is less than 2" between the edge of the rocker cover and the brake booster. The 24v om606 has DOHC therefore the rocker cover would be wider. I can not imagine that it would fit and give any room for movement.
I have also thought of the non turbo 606 as a great replacement engine. I'm sure Martin will comment but it looks to be very good on paper. Flat torque curve to 5000 rpm. It does have a long intake manifold and that may be a squeeze, but it was fitted to LHD vehicles.
It was only fitted for 2 years I think so would be difficult to find one. It does have mechanical fuel injection I believe so electronics would be minimal. If you find 2 let me know :D
I didn't know it had been fitted to lhd vehicles, do you know what years
OM606 Turbo 12 valve fitted to W124 E300 Turbodiesel and E300 T Turbodiesel from 1993 to 1995.
143 BHP I believe and only fitted to 4 speed auto gearbox. Contemporary to OM603 24 valve fitted to 1993 to 1995 E300 and E300T, with 136 BHP, this one also in RHD
oh no
just when I thought I was getting to grips with these om numbers
I thought the 606's were 24 valve and the 603's were 12 valve
back to the drawing board
No Jesus has that all wrong.
om603 is 12V . also om 603A which is 12V turbo Both 3L (forget the 350)
om 606 is 24V again both turbo and non turbo
Same dates as Jesus stated
The om 606 turbo was fitted to LHD only. The nonturbo was only fitted to E class . And I believe in RHD only as we couldn't have the turbo. 136hp
Both 603 & 606 had the same bore and stroke ratio, so very similar engines just improved with the 4v / cyl head. Same as the entire range at the same date
phew, thanks Roly, thats a relief, I wasn't too far out then
No Jesus has that all wrong.
om603 is 12V . also om 603A which is 12V turbo Both 3L (forget the 350)
om 606 is 24V again both turbo and non turbo
Same dates as Jesus stated
The om 606 turbo was fitted to LHD only. The nonturbo was only fitted to E class
OK wrong on the codes. It was as Roly described it.
And I believe in RHD only as we couldn't have the turbo.
OM606 N/A 24 valve sold as E300 Saloon or Estate also in LHD from 1993 to 1995 all over Europe, at least
So many choices, so many variants, so many opinions...
Bear in mind that BHP is a figure which gets arrived at by multiplying torque with rpm through a formula, so unlike BHP which is rather academic in a G, torque is the important figure.
Consider why DC fits their military issue G's with the 290TD:
OM617(G-wagen): 158Nm@2400rpm
OM617a: 250Nm@2400rpm
Both above less than ideal torque curves and fuel consumption due to lower injection pressures/technology of the era.
OM603(W124): 185Nm@2800rpm
OM606(W124): 210Nm@2900rpm
OM602 290TD: 280Nm@2000rpm; 340Nm@2000rpm chipped
Not hard to work out which is better for everyday use!
Unfortunately, it is a fact of life that all the wonderful consumption and torque figures of the OM602 come at a "price" and that's called elctronics.
And for those wondering, the newer generation MB diesels(OM601/602/603/606) CAN indeed come up with the goods if need be. The OM617a was a wonder for it's time, but things have moved on. Whereas the 617a could muster near 300bhp(torque???) through careful attention by men in white coats feeding it a cocktail containing alcohol amongst other things, a modified OM606(turbo intercooled) is quite something different, runs on "normal" diesel and can go to beyond a tested 425BHP@4300rpm/764Nm@3900rpm, with 253Nm at 1400rpm. And that before DC got involved! These are already 12 years old now.
If the blocks/heads/pistons/etc are strong enough, the newer engines will do even more, probably double above.
Back to basics, keeping everything reasonably standard, budget allowing, waterproof the electronics and the 290TD is the engine to go for as a W460 improvement and money-wise works out about the same as a 617a. Cheaper option is the OM603 but a bit pointless unless you fit your own low-pressure turbo on it.
Of all above, the 290TD is the only direct injection and hence far more fuel efficient than any of the others.
All good stuff. now lets see some one do it.?
OK then, assuming you've got your om606 or om602 engines to fit then what are the gearbox options (thinking about my military 6.15 5speed) and transfer box implications
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Thanks Mark, I will give you a ring.
Another problem though, Dai on the benzworld forum has suggested that this engine is an electronic nightmare