koni shocks on order!
After weeks of research i have decided on buying koni shocks for my 280GEL.i am going for the HEAVY TRACK RAID'S,if they are what they seem to be they should last me at least 10 years !i have driven shakir's G and loved his setup of standard koni's and orc/eibach springs with 40mm lift.mine wallows about like a boat and passes the vibrations through the body more,especially when driving faster,whereas shakir's G didnt figit at all on the same roads,plus it went around the same bends more sure footed.i have the springs to change next as my local mechanic observed i had two broken rear springs!!
has anyone fitted konis at all??
If you are wondering where i have ordered them from,here goes;i spoke to TBR just before christmas and i was quite PISSED OFF with the blokes attitude on the other side of the phone,he was not at all bothered about selling me the shocks and i was suprised that these were the same people i purchased my damper from last summer!!!!anyway i thought i would ask the price,o of the koni raids and he qouted me £150 each p/p and vat.until this afternoon i believed these springs must be the nuts at that price but was not willing to give them my money,so i found the main uk distributor"CAMBERELY AUTOFACTOR in Farnborough" and want to share the details with you all;
Koni heavy tracks £70 a corner plus vat and p/p
Koni heavy track raids£118 a corner plus vat and p/p.(difference of £32 each!!!)
the trade sales man i spoke to was chris and the direct number is;01252 518 222.CHRIS WAS SHOCKED AT THE PRICE DIFFERENCE LIKE ME!!!!!
Ha! Hence why I have an account with Camberley Auto Factors - top guys (and gals)
Its at almost a dead-stop at the mo, see the post i will imminently be making in the transmission forum............
Give me a call if you are over this way, CAF Farnborough is only 3 miles from me, I may be around, but then again I may not.........
send me your number and if i come alone i will call and see if you are in,cheers
I fitted a set of Raids as well as springs to my 290 Turbo D last weekend. Although the shocks do not touch the spring turret, it comes very close when the springs are depressed as the Raids are much larger than standard. I decided to grind a small section on the turret to improve the clearance (5 minute job).
The difference in handling is much better. Remember the shocks are adjustable (see Koni USA for details on how to adjust). I understand they are on the softer setting from the factory, which should work well if you have standard springs.
As for the cost. I spoke with the same chaps as you, but finally purchased mine locally for £127 each inc Vat.
Remember Koni offer two different lengths for the front.
G-Series (W460/W461) Front: Lmax = 632 mm, Rear: Lmax = 585 mm 79-02
G-Series (W461) Front: Lmax = 585 mm, Rear: Lmax = 585 mm 90-04
G-Series (W463) Front: Lmax = 585 mm, Rear: Lmax = 585 mm 90-04
I fitted the shorter of the two. I would check the length of you existing shocks. As I believe the only 460/461 with long shocks is the chassis cab model.
thanks for the advice howard!
all i mentioned when ordering was that my G was a 460 lwb upto 1990,i hope chris has ordered the right ones!i am glad you are happy with the raids as i have had no feed back from anyone here or the states.
whats the comfort like and what settings are they on your 290??
Where did you get the springs from howard?
rgds-hussein.
ps (any pics howard?)
Hello Hussein
I have left the setting on the shocks as per the factory which I am told is the softest. I intent to mail Koni in Holland with the part number of the Merc spring to ask for the compatible setting. I have changed the springs for Mercedes Reds on the front and white on the rear. Both recommended by Merc when increasing carrying capacity.
The correct Merc front shocks for the springs are on back order, so I thought I would try the Raids as I am off to Libya in March and thought the stronger shock would be better.
When changing to stronger springs you should change the shocks as stronger springs will overpower the performance of the shocker. So when I changed the rear springs I replaced the shocks with those recommended by Merc. I managed to find one of the rear shocks at a Merc dealer in Reading who had incorrectly ordered the shock and was willing to sell for half price (£62). Once I collected the shock I noticed it was made by Sachs. I looked on their web site which allows you to enter original part numbers to identify the none original part numbers. I then ordered one from my local factor for £52 . Merc charge £107 +vat for the same part. They look identical.
When changing springs it is Important to change the spring on the brake compensator above the rear axle (approx £5 from Merc). This will ensure the brakes are balanced correctly.
This brings me back to the shocks. After changing the front springs I left the original shocks on. I found when braking the truck would dip or submarine, which would confuse the brake balance and give the appearance of poor braking. Once the Raids were fitted the vehicle stayed more or less level improving stopping.
The part number of the Konis I fitted is 90 5383. These allow for a 50mm lift should you wish to raise the truck with longer springs. Once I had fitted the shocks I let the front axle down until the shocks stopped the axle travel, thus confirming they stop before over stretching the brake pipes.
Howard may only post on here 3 times a year, but you always get your monies worth
:D nice new springs two !!
Twodogs
cheers howard, thats the best feed back i've had this year!!
will you not regret fitting the sachs shocks after testing the raids howard??
interesting to hear how they compare though.i am suprised you didn't order your springs from ORC
.i intend on collecting my raids this sunday,all being well and i am strongly
biased towards ordering the eibach springs from ORC with 40mm lift(ONE REASON IS BECAUSE OF MY LOCAL DEALER NOT BEING GOOD AT ORDERING G PARTS!!).i am glad you mentioned the brake compensator,(so easily overlooked!)as the braking effect when is very important.
many thanks howard!
right,just been down my local MB parts store and ordered the following;
rubber rear door seal-£31
complete set of door sill crews(20)-£15
original tool bag,wheel wrench,pliers etc appx-£30.
forgot to order the spring on the brake compensator,so will order it on collection of these parts.
NOW i gave my chassis number and asked about the coils that are fitted on my G from factory and mike at the parts desk looked up the data which showed up as ORANGE/YELLOW for the front and rear.
what does that mean??
any info would be great as i may get the originals if needed cos the wife has sussed out that the orc ones are 40mm taller and she struggles to get in as it is!!! i must show respect to my lovely wife!!
If you let me have your chassis number I will be able to check my EPC. You will only need to change the rear brake compensator spring If you change the road springs. Yellow springs on SWB are standard on most late 460's and orange on Long wheel base models.
I have just read the first part of this thread and noted you need rear springs. I have a pair of rear Orange if your interested
hi howard, i will pm you details as needed.as for the springs i could need them if my rears are broken as my mechanic mentioned.i am after ulimate comfort howard,especially on our ever worsening roads and the fact that i will be exporting the G to cyprus and endulging in more serious use of my G wagen due to more time available.
got them on friday at 5pm.
fitted on saturday at 10am.
one word= "AWESOME!!!!" I WOULD RECOMMEND THEM TO ANYONE!
why, because there red.
seeing is believing peter...!
what you don't know you don't miss mate!!
Just ordered my Raids, due in next week :lol: :lol:
you will not be disappointed !!
what coils do you have on your beast??
Fitted my shocks this evening but I think they're a little to stiff as I lift wheels when racing round the lanes!! :?
have you checked the settings :?:
mine are a big improvement over the original rusty sachs that came off and they are on the soft setting.
the wife has been to tesco's on a number of occasions (no problems!)and i constantly collect & deliver garments and all four wheels are definately firm on the ground :D :D
check your settings :wink:
Wow,
Tescos without a problem,
them man be some shocks :shock:
Offence not intended
Marcus
I guess these shock aren't really suitable for 4X4 vehicles that weigh less than 5 ton! or you want to venture of the tarmac. They make the vehicle a little too stiff. :?
If I pull off a big kerb or try to go up the big kerb the traction control kicks in because a wheel leaves the ground! :?
I wouldn't recomend these for long distance off road or desert driving because you would end up cracking the chassis or ripping the shock mounts off! let along shaking the contents of the vehicle to pieces! :?
so i guess bill had a point from the start :oops:
Forgot to say that this is with my 35" tyres on!
But I will be testing them at an event at the weekend so watch this space and they do give me more travel!
what coils do you have fitted again......?
ORC +40mm on the back and 3" lift on the front so you would have thought stronger spring would work well with the stronger shocks.
you have lost me!
are the also orc on the front?if so how did you lift it 3"?
rgds
No I had a company make me some springs from the dimensions I gave them i.e. length and weight.
and now I need to raise the rear 1"
thanks for the info :wink:
one of the best 463's around :!:
For the ORC coils, I am sold on the idea by Shakir, with the Koni combo. Question is, does the coils for for the G fits all or would I need to know the part number to order from them for a 460?
Jeff
Hi Jeff, when choosing your coils from ORC they ask you which model/engine, because its to do with the weight of your G which springs you have! :D
Thanks,
I noted only two part numbers on their web, one for the front and one for the back. This was for the older Gs and 460. Did not check specs for the new Gs.
Have to think for a way to justify these springs to da home ministry (ulp) after seeing their prices to include shocks, steering dampers, new rims, MT tyres, etc ....wish me luck
Jeff
By the way,
any idea on how would Koni Raids compare with the Bilsteins (F 4 - B 46 - 1636 (2)/ 1635(2) - H 0)? especially after changing to ORC coils?
Jeff
Hello Jeff
I see you have done your home work. the Bilstein B6 Sport shock is the replacement for Mercs Heavy duty shock part number 005323 4200 which is paired to Mercs Heavy duty Red front spring part number 460 321 05 04. The Red spring probably has the same characteristics as the ORC spring. Personally I would ask ORC to spec the shocks.
Peter Perfect (tyre shine) had a spare set of ORC springs for a 230. It may be worth asking if he wants to part with them.
As for the Koni Raids, I noted piggysims comments which prompted me to call Koni Uk. I asked for the spec sheets and shock ratings for the vehicle against Original fitment. Unfortunately I spoke with a Pleb who told me they needed bedding in then adjusting, I think spec sheets way above his head. I shall mail technical in Holland next week.. I find with my Merc Red springs the Raids appear Ok. Although I would agree they are stiff, but they ride the bumps well off road, and with their internal bump stops should stop any spring crashing.
I would say the Koni are about 25% stiffer than the B6
If I was going to refurbish my suspension, I would consider what I use the truck for. I am confused why people fit heavy duty springs when they are going to spend a majority of time on the highway. For many years I fitted standard rated springs with a 2†lift and standard shocks on my 280 , which proved well on and off the road. Ask Peter perfect as he competed off road in my 280 for years. I have recently fitted heavy gear as I intend to carry heavy pay loads over potentially heavy ground.
You can put any old shocks that fit on a truck, and yes they will dampen the spring. But, pair the correct shock and spring and you will see a considerable difference..
Howard, this is interesting. I am planning on putting new Bilstein shocks on my 280GES. I think it has standard springs on the front and the rear springs were replaced with ones from the people listed in G Wizz, similar to the MB stock I believe but a lot cheaper. I was going to get the sport shocks but now it seems I may be better off with the Bilstein standard gas shocks. Which would you think are the best given my current set up, which I am pretty happy with?
Hi Howard,
Thanks for the advise, I am feeling better about what I am about to get now. I have given up my WARN8274 for a normal 9000 winch, meaning that the truck would be used casually off road and mostly on the paved lane. This being the case, just like Dan, Bilstein shocks and ORC coils would do me excellently well. I will give Peter a PM to ask him for the coils .. unless someone beats me to it first. Thanks for the tip.
My current setup are the standard factory fitted springs and shocks and I am amazed how long they have lasted. On recent trips, I loaded them with a 14footer car topper, a 15Hp OBM, fuel, ice coolers, camping gear etc and 4 to 5 pax, and they have held up very well. Nothing serious in terms of ground work though, but I plan to revisit a fishing ground off an old timber track (ex-Rain Forrest Challenge route) hence, I think it'll be wise to have some upgrades. Sadly, being on the other side of the planet, I have not got a second chance in economic terms to get the right set up.
Good luck with your technical search on the Konis.
Jeff
Hello Jeff and Dan
Jeff, if you’re fitting a winch or any other fitments such as a bull bar, tell ORC as this may change the spring they provide.
Merc springs as I mentioned in my previous mail are identified by colour. In many cases the standard short wheel base springs are yellow. But some earlier models came with the rears as Green, which are regarded as too soft. If you PM your chassis number I can tell you which springs were fitted originally to your car. Or you can look for yourself as the colours are marked with painted stripes on the coils. This leads me on to the stripes. The more stripes the stronger the spring. If the vehicle is standard it may only have one stripe. If you have Air conditioning it may have two. With A/c and bull bar, a max of three stripes, get the idea. So if fitting a winch you would add a stripe or us a packer to gain the correct height. I think each stripe compensates by about 50 Kg.
As for Dan, again if you let me have your chassis number I will be able to tell you which springs were fitted at the factory. As for the shocks, I would try a new set of standard and take it easy over the bumps.
Also a point to note many people blame their trucks handling on springs and shocks, in most cases this is correct. But check the doughnut bushes on the leading and trailing arms. They are the large rubber sections where they connect to the axle. Use a bar between the arm and axle to see if they move. If they do this will cause the axle to move from front to back causing poor handling. Also check the panard rod (from rear axle running up to the chassis). Again if worn will cause the axle to move around giving the impression of poor steering
On my old G560 pickup I changed the bushes and found the car handled far better.
hi howard,great info as always!what front springs would i need if i fit a nudge bar like yours according to the chassis number i gave you?i think i had orange springs all round.
do you have a part number for the bushes?
(i left a message on your mobile after you pm'd me)
rgds hus
Hi
Tried to call you back, but it just rings with no message service?
H
had the flame to high on the kebab grill, so couldn't here you I expect. wink
What have I done???? :shock:
I've won a bid for these shocks ... please shock me as I did not know what I was doing ... even after getting sound advise off Howard!!!
Great stuff .. edited to remove the excess attachments ... these were taken off the electronic catalogue ..
I was too late Howard, the ORC coils have parted from its owner. Talk about chicken or egg? which comes first?? I was suppose to get the coils first as my current shocks are still in good nick, but now I have the shocks and not the springs :lol:
Maybe its for the better as I can take your advise to spec the coils based on the fittings I have on my G :idea:
By the way .. my G is a wee bit far from me to get the VIN. Thanks for the offer to check for std factory fittings. Heavens, where do you get the time???
:D jeff
Just fitted S & M rear springs.....Tensor TCS 19091......looked longer than what came off.....which was 20 yrs old i think.....shocks shot - any suggestions (price competitive) for replacements for a road car not carrying huge loads...?
The type of shock will depend on the springs fitted. If the replacement are rated the same as the originals, then I would take the Mercedes Part number to your local factor agent and purchase a pair of Bilstein replacement (they manufacture for Mercedes). If the springs are of a higher rating then you nay want to fit heavy duty shocks. If the vehicle is used mainly on the road, I would stay with standard.
The difference in spring length could be due to the old ones sagging or the new ones having a different rating.
The originals are progressive springs (thinner wire are the ends). The first section helps with the ride and the thicker section with the load carrying.
Hi All,
I'll second that Howard. Fitted the same springs as above and also fitted Bilstein sport B6 shocks pair, yep, far better overall, same ride height when finished and settled.
Regards,
Mike
got some boge sachs shockers, one is on, one waiting to be fitted
Hi Hus55,
I saw and read your comments regarding the Koni shocks. This was over 5 years ago so just wondering how you have found them?
I am undergoing a restoration on my 1987 280GE SWB so need to replace the shock and springs all round. After the amounts I am spending I shan't be taking this G offroad but wondered your opinion as I think the standard Koni's will be fine and adequate for road use. Would you agree or for the slight extra cash should I go for the raids. I appreciate you have only experienced one of the versions but perhaps you have had feedback from others? Any feedback would be great.
I've seen these shocks on Europerformance's website but will give Camberley Autofactor a call as if the prices have not changed since your e-mail they will still be more competitive.
Thanks in advance
Regards,
Nathan
Hmmmmm.....jumped the gun! I replied to your original post and the streams of useful replies then popped up so please ignore me. Sorry
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Hi john,hope your project is coming on well.I will be driving over to pick up my shocks hopefully next sunday when they arrive,as they only accept payment over the counter.(good excuse to get out with the family and G!!)
like you say john,top guys and a great help on the phone.