Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, please contribute your opinions

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gav.helme
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Hi All

Last night i sent out this email to around 50 or so email addresses that i have in my contact book as people that i have had contact with since i joined the GWOA a few years ago, i took out anybody that i knew really well or have lots of contact with, all bar a couple to see what their thoughts were....

I wasn't going to post this on the forum but i have been encouraged to by several forum users, it is just for discussion to try to gage your thoughts about the service the forum and the GWOA provide and is just for my own personal interest rather than anything official... although information and the access to it are reoccurring discussion at the GWOA AGM's, the point being whether it should be free to all, or members only....

I have added a few of the 15 or so email responses that i have received already this morning, quite amazing really. I have not added the users name, just the comments...i have also had 3 phone calls to discuss the email...thanks to those users too...

So against my better judgment here goes...

Many thanks to all, i understand the this is a little long winded, but hey, that's just me...

Gav

Hi All
 
I have at some point in the last year or two, hopefully helped one or all of you in some way with a G Wagen related enquiry either through the GWOA forum or as a direct enquiry through the club itself.
 
Hopefully you will have found the forum very helpful, friendly and a good resource for information, and also the help that myself or our technical rep Rakesh provides also very useful. I fully believe that as a club our members and committee guys and girls, go out of our way to help anybody with advice or information where we can.
 
Do you all realise that this club has no employees, that all this information is provided FOC by enthusiasts for enthusiasts? Nobody gets an financial reward for doing this voluntary work, just the satisfaction that we have helped somebody or that another G is still on the road. To many though it is like having a second full time job!!!
 
The forum and the club is funded solely by the membership fees and with a current membership running around the 270 mark from all corners of the world, it often amazes me that the GWOA can provide such levels of information on such a meagre resource. I understand that the forum itself has over 4000 registered users, OK not all will be active but many are and also many more that use the forum to gain information without ever registering.
 
This is a great advantage of our club and forum over many others, my plea to you is can you help us to keep it going, this year, next year and into the next decade? I hope that the small membership fee of £25 per annum, is nothing compared to the information and savings that you can find on the forum, notwithstanding the welcome pack and freebies that come with joining.
 
My thoughts behind this request are simple, I work full time, I have a young family, I don't even own a G right now although I have had several in years gone by, I love to meet other forum users, I often will try to help diagnose and solve issues with their G's if I can, although this is not my trade, just a hobby if you like. I travel many miles to do so, not for financial reward but just to know that I have helped somebody with a joint interest, especially if they are struggling with either a project vehicle or a financial limit of their resources. I live and breath G's like many of you do...
 
I have included many in this email, and I am sure that a fair few of you will be members or have been previously, my intention is not to offend or not even to push anybody into doing something they don't want to, just to state the facts as I see it, I know what effort I put into the GWOA and I also know that many people put much more than I. I even realise that some of you will no longer have your G's or need any help right now....but in the future you may do? This comes not from the GWOA but from myself, I thought of posting on the forum, but I am not after thanks or personal gratification, just to see the club I love and put so much effort into, survive and flourish for many years ahead.
 
So where ever you are on our planet and whatever you drive, please consider this personal plea, it has come about with two recent enquires, both thru the forum contact forms and both from none GWOA members, myself and Rakesh respond where we can to every request and I hope the two individuals in question don't mind me using their scenarios.
 
Around 6 months ago we had a request about a LWB G320 AMG model, the enquiry was with reference to how many of such models were produced in a particular year, after around 12 hours research and number crunching I was able to give accurate data to the enquirer. The purpose of his enquiry was based around his insurance costs, if he could prove that only a small number of his vehicle were produces in that year he could get a massive reduction, we did, he did and he saved many hundred of Canadian Dollars in doing so...
 
Last month I also received an enquiry from the Philippines about a 290GD 461 Series restoration project, after a few checks to establish the nature and correctness of the enquiry, we have been able to provide data and information to back up the knowledge the enquirer had and to put him on the right path to realise his dream to drive a G and a great model at that... 
 
Both these guys were not GWOA members, I don't even think either are forum users...what I do know is they received the same help and service as the members would hope for, the prompt for this email is that both asked where the could join the GWOA and if we accepted over seas members. Joining is easy, I will not provide the link as many are rightly wary of such things embedded in email, but log onto the website and the page is easy to find, I don't know if either has joined but I am sure the intention was honourable and by doing so they will help to keep the club proactive and keep this excellent resource available for everyone.
 
Well done for getting this far, many will know from my responses that I don't usually write an essay?!?
 
Thank you in advance for any new memberships and feel free to comment back..one new member is one more than we had!!!!
 
All the best
 
Gav
 
"Well said. Where do i sign? I'm guilty of not joining. Its not really pushed enough and all the info is on the forum..... The solution is restricted access based on login details. I have this on the Clio forum"
 
"Get is posted mate....
It will be the biggest topic this year and will I'm sure get loads of 're tweets'"
 
"I agree with all you say, although it took a long time to say it, but what are you asking for? If you have non members using the forum that concerns me as I believe as a principle that people should pay for any services they use and not rely on altruism or state provision. If this is the issue you are raising it would be easily corrected by creating an access code system for the Forum, the access code would be issued annually to members when subscriptions are paid or to non member Forum users when they want to access the Forum
1995 G300 owner since new and still wonderful after 150000 miles"
 
"mate, you are the english version of guido the german and jesus the spaniard...!!
but with a bit more technical know how...
i reckon the 25 stg is well worth it...keep up the good work."
 
 
 
 
axel
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

 Gav is right you know, there are 270 fully paid up (£25 stg) members and then there are 4000 more signed up but have paid nothing and they have basically all the access they feel they need for free!

 does this feel or sound right??  the 'members only' area should be increased dramatically , maybe with a 'taster' of current threads/subjects left open .

those who have a sufficient interest in g wagens will be happy to pay the very reasonable £25 ,those that do not would not of paid anyway so nothing is lost , and the techy types do not have their brains drained by chancers etc who want the info and are then never seen or heard of again.

when your renewal comes up ,thought should be given to those 4000 who are riding our backs for free .

this may seem a bit protectionist , but there are 270 members funding this site /club at the moment and the rest have got passwords or login for free and are having a free ride .

 give g wagen people a taste of the site -yes /or a 30 day trial for free /then pay up or do not /their choice.

good call Gav.

diesel_jim
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

I was "this close" (pinching my fingers together) to joining a month or 2 back, having just got a G, this site (along with the other sites out there, club GW and 3pointed star) are full of useful info.  and i've had great help from forumeers on here; Gav & Axel to name but two.

 

However, with all the turmoil from the forum when committee members were bickering and leaving, I thought I'd hang on to my £25 in case the site went tits up and I lost my money.

 

I will no doubt join up in the near future though.

gav.helme
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

diesel_jim wrote:

I was "this close" (pinching my fingers together) to joining a month or 2 back, having just got a G, this site (along with the other sites out there, club GW and 3pointed star) are full of useful info.  and i've had great help from forumeers on here; Gav & Axel to name but two.

 

However, with all the turmoil from the forum when committee members were bickering and leaving, I thought I'd hang on to my £25 in case the site went tits up and I lost my money.

 

I will no doubt join up in the near future though.

Hi Jim

I think its safe to say that the "issues" have or are being dealt with and the Status Quo has returned, onwards and upwards from here, but that is not what this is about....

I am sure this years AGM will have a bumper attendance and there will be many there with great ideas, constructive opinions and willing to get involved, that's what its all about isn't it? Not many people join a club not to have some form of social connection....

I know your a good guy and also contribute to the forum in a positive manner, pay your money and if anything happens i will send you a personal cheque to cover your "loss"!!!!

Cheers

Gav

cox.adrian
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

   pay up or ship out

mark
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

[quote=diesel_jim

However, with all the turmoil from the forum when committee members were bickering and leaving, I thought I'd hang on to my £25 in case the site went tits up and I lost my money.

[/quote]

The site or the GWOA aren't going to go tits up. 

KevinStuttgart
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

  Good point well made. Too many people just taking advantage. I would go along with non paying users having a read only facility, then on subscription being able to post.

peter perfect
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

25 quid is to much if, your not getting the G Wizz magazine, as the fee was to cover these costs. to be a member on the forum only should be 5 quid. But yu can get free info from the other forums.

 

 

Spider1V
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...
First - Membership should have its privileges
​Second - Well said that man!
Third - Gav for president! laugh
 
On a more serious note and basing this on experience, as a former committee member one does end up doing a lot of work in 'extra hours' and its great when at the end of the day you get a successful result, however this is not right - people can come on here, get GREAT advice and then just bugger off? When you look at it - the £25 fee can be saved in the first conversation with the GWOA, whether through official MB parts sourced at a better price, advice in choosing one's new G or Advice on how to ship it, register it, take it apart etc etc.it more than pays back!
 
I did advocate a compromise that we should consider having certain areas open for Web users for example: Welcome, Introductions, G Chat, Buying advice, G Events, Galleries and 'Who's G was that?'. All the other areas would be members only? My theory being that
a) your £25 would pay back
b) we retain some IP/knowledge
c) it would also reduce the amount of scum sucking tossers who use this excellent forum to 'fish' for unsuspecting new clients.
d) May put some more money in the coffers - which could then be used to improve the services for our members.
 
Nice one Gav!
 
Joe
Spider1V
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

peter perfect wrote:

25 quid is to much if, your not getting the G Wizz magazine, as the fee was to cover these costs. to be a member on the forum only should be 5 quid. But yu can get free info from the other forums.

You still a member then or you just coming off the Web?

Spider1V

mercfan
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

deleted

IanA2
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

Personally I don't think £25.00 is a huge amount to pay for membership of such an exclusive club smiley

If the access code/restricted area ideas do not come off, how about charging non-members for advertising stuff.

gav.helme
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

Couple more from today... i have to say i have been overwhelmed be the responses in my inbox and on my phone and most of all by the 3 or 4 that have already joined the GWOA!!!! One kind gentleman that has even bank transferred last years and this years fees....

"Well what an epistle!!  All very good points and well said. You have helped me in the past for which I am very grateful .
The forum is a great discussion vehicle and is so good because of the huge number of people that use it bringing their experience to us all but I think that there should be some way that technical help is available to members only. Does that sound selfish ? I don't know.
Long may you and those who offer help and advice continue to do so.
I belong to the another Owners Club and one senior member for years has held a lot of ex military data to provide in-service, sale and subsequent history for owners etc. Because an increasing number of people he helped were too ignorant  at least say 'thank you' he has ceased to supply any information at all now. A great shame.
Keep up the good work it is people like you who give freely for the benefit of others that so help the Association to survive. THANK YOU!
Very best wishes"
 
"The forum is a great place for exchange of information and notes, and allows the GWOA to reach out to member across the world, the information, guidance, experience and parts that can be got through the GWOA can save people ££££££! What is frustrating is the fact that for a paltry sum of £25 to get access to this is not managed very efficiently. As your post highlights we have had over 4000 users on the forum and only less than 10% of that are members! It also does 'beggar belief' that we have committee members who, as you have pointed out, give their free time in helping other members for no real return.
 
I have proposed in the past that we view the forum and club as one main entity and remove access to Website members of some of the certain areas on the forum with the following exceptions;
 
Welcome
Intro
G Chat
Buying advice
G Events - Public
Who's G was that?
 
Everything else to be 'Members Only'. The idea that someone has a flag (the red GWOA) on their avatar is great then you know you're talking to and exchanging information with a paid member. The two examples you have given and the numbers of people whom I know you have helped, the advice would have saved them well over the £25 fee! So my advice would be to reply that while you would love to help, they can join the GWOA for £25 and get it 'free' or pay you direct £125 and you will do the search /investigation they require?
 
Membership MUST have its privileges?
 
Keep the comments coming everyone, hopefully if enough people understand the way that this great club is run then our membership trend will reverse and once again be on the increase.....thanks all some really positive comments and ideas, from both sides of the room.
diesel_jim
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

I've just joined! yes   heart

gav.helme
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

diesel_jim wrote:

I've just joined! yes   heart

Fantastic News smileyyes painless isn't it cheeky Nice red banner you got there wink

IanA2
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

Yorkshire folks are even better than Scots at getting money out of folks smiley

gav.helme
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

IanA2 wrote:

Yorkshire folks are even better than Scots at getting money out of folks smiley

You do have experience crying

 

diesel_jim
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

Yes, 'tis rather.

 

It's also like finding a new secret door in your house that you never knew existed, and when you go through it, there's all manner of new shiny stuff in there to look at. wink

SierraTango
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

And I bet that guilty feeling has lifted.. wink

It's like being upgraded to club class! Might as well fetch a cuppa and settle down for a good read now you're in the members' lounge... yes

mark
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

Great topic.

 
Some additional info to help with the figures.
 
There are  4000+ registered users on the site.  This figure include everyone and "everything" that has signed up since the beginning of the previous website 10 years and 21 weeks ago.
 
I say everything because this figure includes all the spam accounts, however these register, ie manually or spam bot. Although blocked, theses accounts remain within the 4000+ users. They have to for the system to recognise they are blocked. There are around 900 blocked accounts
 
Of the 4000+ registered users, around 3400 have not visited the site in the last year, this obviously includes the 900 blocked accounts.
ToneThePhone
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

My office is "on it like a car bonnet" so I hope to be a member soon

Colmmcrory
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

Great post Gav. I agree with every word in your mail. I know first hand of the work that you and Rakesh put into helping and accommodating people and I know it is all done out of pure decency. You have saved me a fortune in the past and I am very grateful to you both. £25 is £25, and some may feel it is a lot of money to some in these times of economic hardship, but for the help and advice you receive on this forum £25 is a paltry sum to contribute.

Regards,

Colm

derekfinn
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

I agree with Colm above. Both Gav and Rakeesh have saved me way more than the membership fee. It's because of these individuals and others like them that I'm in the GWOA. No BS just genuine advice. Can't speak highly enough of them both.

Regards

Derek

Norfolk66
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

 

Well done Gav for posting this.

Thank you to both you and Rakesh and all others who have personally given me so much free unpaid information and advice as no doubt many other members have benefited from.

Unlike most “Customers Services Centres” you are always open 24/7/365 never say leave a name and number or email and we will get back to you.

The GWOA is a simple, informative easy to use site which I have found both enlightening and good entertainment at times. As I read the comments I did say that this would be post of the year and get a few re-tweets on Twatty, Faceache or Licked On!

Personally, I feel the £25 is like a badge of honour to say you are happy to be part of such a unique club of insomniacs and disturbed individuals and proud to show your colors.

Years ago at school I nearly joined the gang who had LOVE and HATE tattooed with Indian Ink on their knuckles but was saved when the leader who had one of his fingers chopped of at the wood yard where he had a Saturday job. Poor bloke for the last 37 years he has had to walk around with LOVE and HAT on his knuckles which is not quite so intimidating !

£25 is nothing for all the  :-

·         Information

·         Answers

·         Questions

·         Comments

·         Comedy

All the above that help you get the most out of your G Wagen.

However, some members probably like me in the 70’s when I joined the SHOWADDYWADDY Fan Club will be disappointed that for my two bob all I got was a pencil and photo of The Duke!

What in prospective members eyes is worth £25?

·         A tax disc holder?

·         A key ring light?

·         A signed picture of all V8 owners on their bonnets………..Plums Up ?

The answer is…………..who know’s?

However…………….

With the vast amount of informative information available in the public domain (that of which is not copy write) on G Wagens…then why not for their £25 given them a USB Key fob a 10Gb memory stick that contains :-

·         Handbooks

·         Pictures

·         Service Articles

·         Uncle Richards 20 point spring reminders………..The Gentle Persuader J

·         All past copies of G Whizz

·         Engine and Gear box configurations

·         Part numbers and schematics etc. etc. etc.

All the above would serve the following purposes  :-

·         Any non G Wagen Members would pay £100 min on eBay for this kind of info.

·         Members would have more info that they would ever need.

·         If they needed to verify it they could simply add a post for you technical Sherlock’s  to review and put right!

Ultimately, taking all the onus on both you and Rakesh doing all the time consuming Donkey work….we all know you love it but posting the part numbers for a complete brake over hall at 4.00am in the morning must drive you both insane J

Well done mate and well done for all those have signed up…

Thanks Norfolk Gimp………………cheers Axel ……….I owe you one J

Ps.      

Spider1V………………. ‘Gav for President’………makes Rakesh ‘The First Lady’….sorry Rakesh

 

Audiominx
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

Given the huge amount of support and advice I received after my crash a couple of years ago, I would be happy to pay a bit more for membership as I do pay more for the other owners club I am in. Even if it was just £5, the club would make a fair bit more.

There is a huge wealth of information available from people

As it seems that the problems are now being ironed out, could that not be an option to be discussed  at the next AGM?

Just a though

mercfan
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

After my last post regarding exclusive members only access for some parts of the forum, I've had more thoughts.

When you're working on your own, your thoughts go, don't they?

So, I thought, there is actually another angle to all this.

Maybe it's not all about money.

Surely, a lot of us are on here and do what we do because we want to and not to earn money.

So if the club is surviving well enough on current arrangements, then why change it?

Yes of course the club can make more money, but that is NOT what a club is there for.

And the BIG advantage from having "freeloaders" come on here and talk and chat and ask questions, is that in some way we all benefit from it. By learning from someone else's experiences and/or experiences whether good or bad, whether member or not.

And knowledge and experience (even if relayed) is but the greatest treasure there is to have.

So on that front, this club and forum is extremely wealthy.

For example, a non-member may come along and ask about a problem or issue which they have with their vehicle. A regular on here may provide the solution. Hopefully the visitor will report back with the result. And we all learn from it. Give and take and everyone's a winner. If the visitor would have been "forced" to first cough up £25, he would probably have gone somewhere else (free). Or to somewhere like justanswer where you don't have to pay until you're happy.

The part that really matters, is what is worth more? £25 to the club or a discussion thread on the forum from which we can all very possibly learn something we may well use/need at some point in the future?

And on these grounds, after many hours of thought, I have changed my stance on this.

We must guard against becoming too "exclusive" and therefor closed off to "outside" contributions.

mercfan
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

If there's one thing I've learnt in life, it's this.

Help others when you can, as often as you can and in a moment of your own need, there will be many hands coming to your aid.

mark
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

Of course doing anything to encourage people to join is a good thing, I think locking the forum down is exactly the wrong thing to do. The forum would be dead within a year, there just aren't that many regular posters. New forum members keep the forum alive, many do become members after a while, some don't.

This image of 4000 members visiting here, leaching info right left and centre is not fact.
 
There are a few other G specific forums, all free to join, and you will get good technical info on all of them. 
SierraTango
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

My thoughts exactly. Now where was that 'like' button again? wink

Griff
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

Having been a unpaid member since 2007 I have just joined officially paid my £25 I have used the forum for information as well as reporting my solved problems tying to be a productive member.

I've had a white 1992 SWB 463 since 2004 and repaired and maintained it through the years it's still in first class condition, As a retired contractors plant fitter I find the "G" a great well built piece of machinery it's tough made of quality steel and built by experts.

I would like a good LWB the older type the new 2010 ones are too expensive for me as it's a second car but have yet to find a fairly low mileage one, the Green LWB 290 on eBay looked good but a post on the forum about the underside has put me off it.

I will keep looking they do come around every millennium! 

mercfan
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

wrong forum blush

Norfolk66
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

Gav,

Great to see that you have inspired so many people to wear the badge with pride!

You may well get the call from Roy to do the England Team Talk for the World Cup......".

Apologies for all those not going to the World Cup :-)

Tim

 

 

mark
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

SierraTango wrote:

My thoughts exactly. Now where was that 'like' button again? wink

It's not forgotten. :)

needamerc
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

I like "Norfolk66" suggestion of a USB loaded with tech stuff. A brilliant idea, possibly with copyright problems though.

Quote:

With the vast amount of informative information available in the public domain (that of which is not copy write) on G Wagens…then why not for their £25 given them a USB Key fob a 10Gb memory stick that contains :-

·         Handbooks

·         Pictures

·         Service Articles

·         Uncle Richards 20 point spring reminders………..The Gentle Persuader J

·         All past copies of G Whizz

·         Engine and Gear box configurations

·         Part numbers and schematics etc. etc. etc.

All the above would serve the following purposes  :-

·         Any non G Wagen Members would pay £100 min on eBay for this kind of info.

·         Members would have more info that they would ever need.

·         If they needed to verify it they could simply add a post for you technical Sherlock’s  to review and put right!

Unquote.

 

Harald Pietschmann has been selling G-Wagen technical info for years over on http://www.4x4abc.com/Mercedes-Benz.G-Class.manuals/

He may or may not have official MB sanction to do this. In my early G-Wagen days I bought a CD with the W460 and OM617 info burned to it. Nice, useful, very expensive and far from comprehensive in terms of covering multiple chassis/engine/transmission options.

Thanks for starting this thread Gav, and a BIG THANKS for the emergency help yesterday! You are a star.

Eddie.

mark
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

I like the key fob USB idea, but, once a member has all this info for £25, why will they join again the following year?

Norfolk66
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Mark,

Perhaps just read access. £25 is peanuts compared to the ready replies somebody always will give if you post a problem.

I'm just elated with Eddies comment that I have posted a good idea smiley

So elated that I am off to Jersey tomorrow on a mission and will be going to see a Super G and will be amazed if this drive will take me up to 100 mph! Those Jersey roads are just great.

Cruising down St Brelades Bay then a couple of beers watching the Masters last round......heaven!

Norfolk Boy

bigblock
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

Before we go rushing off to restrict peoples access to the site for not being a paid up member of the GWOA, lets try and remember that the club only really needs enough money to maintain its current form. I don't imagine that is very much, although I would be interested to know how many subscriptions it needs to meet its annual overheads.

Lets be honest the GWOA forums are not exactly awash with posts and there are several days when there are no new posts at all. Do you really want to reduce that even more and end up with no one to share your vast wealth of G knowledge and enthusiasm  with.

Some people come onto the site because they need technical information or buying advice others because they want to chat about G Wagons. Personally if I have the knowledge to help someone I am happy to share it with other G enthusiasts, plenty of people have done it for me. If they want to become a member that's great if not who cares.

Not so long ago this site was the go to place to look for G Wagons and parts for sale. Anybody could advertise for free and members would leave comments about the various G's to assist prospective buyers. The G's for sale section also provided a historic archive of all the G's advertised on the site and what prices were being asked for them going back years.

We lost all of that in one fell swoop when we decided to charge for advertising in the misguided belief that it would bring in a great deluge of funds. It obviously didn't and I see we currently have the grand total of two G Wagons for sale in the classifieds!  Not only did we not make much money we threw away one of the biggest reasons people visited the site and the potential to recruit them as members.

Lets not make the same mistake by trying to force people into paying for information which in my opinion will do far more harm to the club than the limited financial gain.

Doug.

 

 

mercfan
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

bigblock wrote:

Before we go rushing off to restrict peoples access to the site for not being a paid up member of the GWOA, lets try and remember that the club only really needs enough money to maintain its current form. I don't imagine that is very much, although I would be interested to know how many subscriptions it needs to meet its annual overheads.

Lets be honest the GWOA forums are not exactly awash with posts and there are several days when there are no new posts at all. Do you really want to reduce that even more and end up with no one to share your vast wealth of G knowledge and enthusiasm  with.

Some people come onto the site because they need technical information or buying advice others because they want to chat about G Wagons. Personally if I have the knowledge to help someone I am happy to share it with other G enthusiasts, plenty of people have done it for me. If they want to become a member that's great if not who cares.

Not so long ago this site was the go to place to look for G Wagons and parts for sale. Anybody could advertise for free and members would leave comments about the various G's to assist prospective buyers. The G's for sale section also provided a historic archive of all the G's advertised on the site and what prices were being asked for them going back years.

We lost all of that in one fell swoop when we decided to charge for advertising in the misguided belief that it would bring in a great deluge of funds. It obviously didn't and I see we currently have the grand total of two G Wagons for sale in the classifieds!  Not only did we not make much money we threw away one of the biggest reasons people visited the site and the potential to recruit them as members.

Lets not make the same mistake by trying to force people into paying for information which in my opinion will do far more harm to the club than the limited financial gain.

Doug.

 

 

ONE HUNDRED PERCENT EXACT AND CORRECT - WELL SAID!!!

mark
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

[/quote]

ONE HUNDRED PERCENT EXACT AND CORRECT - WELL SAID!!!

[/quote]

 

Nonsense, 60% at most.

Could try harder!

mercfan
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Nonsense, 60% at most.

Could try harder!

laugh laughlaugh

prwales
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

I think that on balance I agree with Doug esp about the need covering costs, perhaps a lower annual fee could be tried as an alternative experiment to see if it increases membership. How many members would we need to recruit at £10 for example.

2ndly If there is a surplus why not use it more creatively, perhaps a renovation of a particularly old vehicle or a diesel conversion of some kind, [an electric jobbie would be beyond the clubs means even if we did agree it.]

axel
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

one  option for the use of any 'surplus' would be to have an insurance policy/ cover for club members so that we have insurance for using offroad courses /land for gwoa events .

when we still had a southern area gwoa rep. joe drove down to the south west to scout for  and view a location for the AGM, he found a fantastic site for the meeting and 5 minutes drive from there was a mega privately owned offroad course.

sadly joe pointed out that the club has no insurance for the use of such a site so that was the end of that / other clubs with small memberships manage to have such insurance cover . 

the agm could of been within easy reach for the irish guys to fly in to the local airport and we had the use of an epic offroad course /  all this now not going to happen - shame .

mark
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

I think insurance is a great idea.

Over the years we have very kindly been offered the use of some fantastic sites, in The Lake District and Scotland to name just a few. Howard and I have spent many weekends doing reccys all over the place. Insurance has always been the problem.
 
Club insurance has been looked into in the passed, sadly with no result. It's time it was looked at again. Volunteers form an orderly queue please. 
 
 
axel
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i can ask around , maybe there is a way to simply have a blanket cover for all 'paid up' members who are covered only when they are 'inside' their period of paid membership/ the cover could  extend only to gwoa events or others?? and not just going for a hooley in some farmers field. this type of cover is usually for public liability/accidental damage/property persons/ it does NOT usually extend to having your g55 re-shelled if you barrel roll it.

 it would be impractical to have a sub-register of members who want the cover as it would have to be managed by some poor unpaid soul who will have to be administering the numbers of covered against new members joining (or leaving the club) far better to get the cover as part of the membership/ this will make it much easier to book offroad events for gwoa at agm time / pay and play sites are all very well and good but you cannot beat having private access to superb facilities /the site we could of had use of for the aborted south west uk based agm was 'lambs lair' on the mendip hills . this site is used by the police /jeep dealer launches/ all wheel drive club safari's and technical trials etc etc .

mercfan
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

mark wrote:

I think insurance is a great idea.

Over the years we have very kindly been offered the use of some fantastic sites, in The Lake District and Scotland to name just a few. Howard and I have spent many weekends doing reccys all over the place. Insurance has always been the problem.
 
Club insurance has been looked into in the passed, sadly with no result. It's time it was looked at again. Volunteers form an orderly queue please. 
 
 

Agreed, good idea.

Let me know if and how I can help?

mark
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

Great responses.yes

It's a good few years since I looked into it, so have forgotten a lot. 

 
Public liability is the important one, if someone damages their truck, thats hard luck, but the thought of someones child being knocked over and the GWOA walking away and leaving the land owner to sort things out does not bare thinking about. As far as I know disclaimers only cover lose of goods. Any disclaimer that suggests it disclaims against death or injury are not worth the paper they are written on. ( I think thats right)
 
The MSA is a good place to start.
If I remember correctly, we won't get a blanket cover. Events need to be insured individually, risk assessments done (no big deal, they are easily done) marshals appointed, etc, etc.
 
I gave up in the end, but with a few people looking into it I'm sure it's possible.
 
It would be a major bonus for the club if this could be sorted.
axel
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totally mark, the cover is really only to be used for the agm event as it then can open up the potential number of sites that can be used , the one at lamb's lair on the ,mendip hills is private so you have to have your own insurance in place as an individual or organisation /club etc / the problems start when the b/s of risk assessments / numbers of people /first aid(ers)/

and gawd knows what else/ the marshalling is fairly straight forward and the MSA could be a great way of finding out how to arrange the right kind of straight forward cover without too much onerous  rules and regs / other clubs may well be able to give good guidance on how to go about it .

bigblock
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

The JLT Group handle the insurance for all MSA sanctioned events in the UK.

http://www.jltgroup.com/sports-insurance/

The GWOA would have to join the MSA and then take out club insurance through JLT. The public liability insurance would cover the club for MSA sanctioned events like time trials and RTA's but I am not sure how it works for a club organised meet with some casual off road driving on private land. That may require some investigation.

A couple of years ago  the GWOA were offered a free weekends accommodation in the Highlands with access to 50,000 acres of off roading. The only stipulation was that this would be for members only and the GWOA would have to provide the estate owners with proof of public liability insurance. Unfortunately this was deemed to be beyond the means of the club and so the event never took place.

I think if the GWOA wants to promote itself to attract new members and organise more social events then public liability insurance should be high on the list of priorities.

Doug.

 

gav.helme
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

Well everybody...!!!

Glad to see this thread his generated some interest, either on or off topic is cool by me...i am nothing if not accommodating

As for the membership / access debate i have been asked where i sit, and to be fair, middle ground sums it up...

I hoped that more people would pay their £25 to the GWOA and that the committee etc can use these funds proactively to take the club forward, i also think that locking down the forum completely is not the answer but a few certain things should be available for your membership fee over and above the forum.

If i use a forum or a website that is run by volunteers and i am aware of that, then i will always make a contribution, most have this facility, whether it is £3 or £33 it does not matter? The fact is that you are contributing for information received. If you don't find what you want you don't pay, if you find something that saves you £1000 what is the harm in contributing 10?

John Kenny that runs the AGOA has kindly emailed me with his views and i say i have to agree, one point around advertising is relevant, they keep their site advert free by asking for donations to help towards the running costs, the usual suspects contribute plus a few others, and the small amount needed is raised in days and will last for a year or two.

Basically if you want to be part of the club and the social side, AGM and events, then join and put your say forward if you like, get involved and be active, alternatively if you need information then the option is there to say thank you and help the club, if you want the information and don't feel you need to contribute that's OK too, a good mix of everybody is healthy? As other long term users have stated...

If we started the year with 270+ paid up members, the latest figures up to March i have seen says 248, the 460's are getting older, more are cherished classics and not used off road, 461's are rare, 463's are common enough (in G terms) but we have a hole coming up for the next 10 years (19 - 9 years old) were there are not many RHD models so our numbers are falling all the time and the market changing. How many 2010 onwards 463 owners do we see on the forum / AGM? A handful and most are outside the UK.

Lets be frank, this is a UK club run by UK people as i see it, if there are no UK club members then the forum will not exist anyway? At what point if the membership numbers fall at circa 10% a quarter does this happen? I am obviously speaking from a purely personal position here as the thread stats, and understand that when i get involved here our membership numbers were up in the mid 300's. only 3 or so years ago?

My main hope from this was discussion, and i hope it does not end here, i hope that the committee guys are reading and that the members who attend the AGM will be prepared to engage in a constructive discussion and take the club forwards. There is room for everybody, from anywhere and requiring what ever you need, but only if the core is active and the heart still beating. Without that there is nothing....

Gav

 

mercfan
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

 

Good points and thoughts, Gav.

The "donate" side is one that I feel needs addressing. As you, I too, am frequently using other "free" forums, but regularly donate as a way of saying "THANKS, YOU GUYS HELPED ME OUT!"

Maybe a floating button on all the threads here, floating along as things progress down the page, maybe with words to the effect of "if this site has been of use to you, then please donate here to help us maintain it and to keep it free from adverts".

Straight link to the usual membership paypal portal. 

And if someone donated £25 or more, automatically give them a membership.

The crucial thing is to make it easy for visitors to give if they want to.

mark
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Re: Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, ...

@ bigblock

Yes, completely right.

The stumbling block before was to cover the casual off roading on private land. It would not be covered even if alongside a time trail or similar.
 
As previously mentioned, it needs looking into again.