Unoffical discussion thread, Information and Membership, please contribute your opinions
Hi All
Last night i sent out this email to around 50 or so email addresses that i have in my contact book as people that i have had contact with since i joined the GWOA a few years ago, i took out anybody that i knew really well or have lots of contact with, all bar a couple to see what their thoughts were....
I wasn't going to post this on the forum but i have been encouraged to by several forum users, it is just for discussion to try to gage your thoughts about the service the forum and the GWOA provide and is just for my own personal interest rather than anything official... although information and the access to it are reoccurring discussion at the GWOA AGM's, the point being whether it should be free to all, or members only....
I have added a few of the 15 or so email responses that i have received already this morning, quite amazing really. I have not added the users name, just the comments...i have also had 3 phone calls to discuss the email...thanks to those users too...
So against my better judgment here goes...
Many thanks to all, i understand the this is a little long winded, but hey, that's just me...
Gav
Gav is right you know, there are 270 fully paid up (£25 stg) members and then there are 4000 more signed up but have paid nothing and they have basically all the access they feel they need for free!
does this feel or sound right?? the 'members only' area should be increased dramatically , maybe with a 'taster' of current threads/subjects left open .
those who have a sufficient interest in g wagens will be happy to pay the very reasonable £25 ,those that do not would not of paid anyway so nothing is lost , and the techy types do not have their brains drained by chancers etc who want the info and are then never seen or heard of again.
when your renewal comes up ,thought should be given to those 4000 who are riding our backs for free .
this may seem a bit protectionist , but there are 270 members funding this site /club at the moment and the rest have got passwords or login for free and are having a free ride .
give g wagen people a taste of the site -yes /or a 30 day trial for free /then pay up or do not /their choice.
good call Gav.
I was "this close" (pinching my fingers together) to joining a month or 2 back, having just got a G, this site (along with the other sites out there, club GW and 3pointed star) are full of useful info. and i've had great help from forumeers on here; Gav & Axel to name but two.
However, with all the turmoil from the forum when committee members were bickering and leaving, I thought I'd hang on to my £25 in case the site went tits up and I lost my money.
I will no doubt join up in the near future though.
pay up or ship out
[quote=diesel_jim
However, with all the turmoil from the forum when committee members were bickering and leaving, I thought I'd hang on to my £25 in case the site went tits up and I lost my money.
[/quote]
The site or the GWOA aren't going to go tits up.
Good point well made. Too many people just taking advantage. I would go along with non paying users having a read only facility, then on subscription being able to post.
25 quid is to much if, your not getting the G Wizz magazine, as the fee was to cover these costs. to be a member on the forum only should be 5 quid. But yu can get free info from the other forums.
25 quid is to much if, your not getting the G Wizz magazine, as the fee was to cover these costs. to be a member on the forum only should be 5 quid. But yu can get free info from the other forums.
You still a member then or you just coming off the Web?
Spider1V
deleted
Personally I don't think £25.00 is a huge amount to pay for membership of such an exclusive club
If the access code/restricted area ideas do not come off, how about charging non-members for advertising stuff.
I've just joined!
Yorkshire folks are even better than Scots at getting money out of folks
Yes, 'tis rather.
It's also like finding a new secret door in your house that you never knew existed, and when you go through it, there's all manner of new shiny stuff in there to look at.
And I bet that guilty feeling has lifted..
It's like being upgraded to club class! Might as well fetch a cuppa and settle down for a good read now you're in the members' lounge...
Great topic.
My office is "on it like a car bonnet" so I hope to be a member soon
Great post Gav. I agree with every word in your mail. I know first hand of the work that you and Rakesh put into helping and accommodating people and I know it is all done out of pure decency. You have saved me a fortune in the past and I am very grateful to you both. £25 is £25, and some may feel it is a lot of money to some in these times of economic hardship, but for the help and advice you receive on this forum £25 is a paltry sum to contribute.
Regards,
Colm
I agree with Colm above. Both Gav and Rakeesh have saved me way more than the membership fee. It's because of these individuals and others like them that I'm in the GWOA. No BS just genuine advice. Can't speak highly enough of them both.
Regards
Derek
Well done Gav for posting this.
Thank you to both you and Rakesh and all others who have personally given me so much free unpaid information and advice as no doubt many other members have benefited from.
Unlike most “Customers Services Centres” you are always open 24/7/365 never say leave a name and number or email and we will get back to you.
The GWOA is a simple, informative easy to use site which I have found both enlightening and good entertainment at times. As I read the comments I did say that this would be post of the year and get a few re-tweets on Twatty, Faceache or Licked On!
Personally, I feel the £25 is like a badge of honour to say you are happy to be part of such a unique club of insomniacs and disturbed individuals and proud to show your colors.
Years ago at school I nearly joined the gang who had LOVE and HATE tattooed with Indian Ink on their knuckles but was saved when the leader who had one of his fingers chopped of at the wood yard where he had a Saturday job. Poor bloke for the last 37 years he has had to walk around with LOVE and HAT on his knuckles which is not quite so intimidating !
£25 is nothing for all the :-
· Information
· Answers
· Questions
· Comments
· Comedy
All the above that help you get the most out of your G Wagen.
However, some members probably like me in the 70’s when I joined the SHOWADDYWADDY Fan Club will be disappointed that for my two bob all I got was a pencil and photo of The Duke!
What in prospective members eyes is worth £25?
· A tax disc holder?
· A key ring light?
· A signed picture of all V8 owners on their bonnets………..Plums Up ?
The answer is…………..who know’s?
However…………….
With the vast amount of informative information available in the public domain (that of which is not copy write) on G Wagens…then why not for their £25 given them a USB Key fob a 10Gb memory stick that contains :-
· Handbooks
· Pictures
· Service Articles
· Uncle Richards 20 point spring reminders………..The Gentle Persuader J
· All past copies of G Whizz
· Engine and Gear box configurations
· Part numbers and schematics etc. etc. etc.
All the above would serve the following purposes :-
· Any non G Wagen Members would pay £100 min on eBay for this kind of info.
· Members would have more info that they would ever need.
· If they needed to verify it they could simply add a post for you technical Sherlock’s to review and put right!
Ultimately, taking all the onus on both you and Rakesh doing all the time consuming Donkey work….we all know you love it but posting the part numbers for a complete brake over hall at 4.00am in the morning must drive you both insane J
Well done mate and well done for all those have signed up…
Thanks Norfolk Gimp………………cheers Axel ……….I owe you one J
Ps.
Spider1V………………. ‘Gav for President’………makes Rakesh ‘The First Lady’….sorry Rakesh
Given the huge amount of support and advice I received after my crash a couple of years ago, I would be happy to pay a bit more for membership as I do pay more for the other owners club I am in. Even if it was just £5, the club would make a fair bit more.
There is a huge wealth of information available from people
As it seems that the problems are now being ironed out, could that not be an option to be discussed at the next AGM?
Just a though
After my last post regarding exclusive members only access for some parts of the forum, I've had more thoughts.
When you're working on your own, your thoughts go, don't they?
So, I thought, there is actually another angle to all this.
Maybe it's not all about money.
Surely, a lot of us are on here and do what we do because we want to and not to earn money.
So if the club is surviving well enough on current arrangements, then why change it?
Yes of course the club can make more money, but that is NOT what a club is there for.
And the BIG advantage from having "freeloaders" come on here and talk and chat and ask questions, is that in some way we all benefit from it. By learning from someone else's experiences and/or experiences whether good or bad, whether member or not.
And knowledge and experience (even if relayed) is but the greatest treasure there is to have.
So on that front, this club and forum is extremely wealthy.
For example, a non-member may come along and ask about a problem or issue which they have with their vehicle. A regular on here may provide the solution. Hopefully the visitor will report back with the result. And we all learn from it. Give and take and everyone's a winner. If the visitor would have been "forced" to first cough up £25, he would probably have gone somewhere else (free). Or to somewhere like justanswer where you don't have to pay until you're happy.
The part that really matters, is what is worth more? £25 to the club or a discussion thread on the forum from which we can all very possibly learn something we may well use/need at some point in the future?
And on these grounds, after many hours of thought, I have changed my stance on this.
We must guard against becoming too "exclusive" and therefor closed off to "outside" contributions.
If there's one thing I've learnt in life, it's this.
Help others when you can, as often as you can and in a moment of your own need, there will be many hands coming to your aid.
Of course doing anything to encourage people to join is a good thing, I think locking the forum down is exactly the wrong thing to do. The forum would be dead within a year, there just aren't that many regular posters. New forum members keep the forum alive, many do become members after a while, some don't.
My thoughts exactly. Now where was that 'like' button again?
Having been a unpaid member since 2007 I have just joined officially paid my £25 I have used the forum for information as well as reporting my solved problems tying to be a productive member.
I've had a white 1992 SWB 463 since 2004 and repaired and maintained it through the years it's still in first class condition, As a retired contractors plant fitter I find the "G" a great well built piece of machinery it's tough made of quality steel and built by experts.
I would like a good LWB the older type the new 2010 ones are too expensive for me as it's a second car but have yet to find a fairly low mileage one, the Green LWB 290 on eBay looked good but a post on the forum about the underside has put me off it.
I will keep looking they do come around every millennium!
wrong forum
Gav,
Great to see that you have inspired so many people to wear the badge with pride!
You may well get the call from Roy to do the England Team Talk for the World Cup......".
Apologies for all those not going to the World Cup :-)
Tim
My thoughts exactly. Now where was that 'like' button again?
It's not forgotten. :)
I like "Norfolk66" suggestion of a USB loaded with tech stuff. A brilliant idea, possibly with copyright problems though.
Quote:
With the vast amount of informative information available in the public domain (that of which is not copy write) on G Wagens…then why not for their £25 given them a USB Key fob a 10Gb memory stick that contains :-
· Handbooks
· Pictures
· Service Articles
· Uncle Richards 20 point spring reminders………..The Gentle Persuader J
· All past copies of G Whizz
· Engine and Gear box configurations
· Part numbers and schematics etc. etc. etc.
All the above would serve the following purposes :-
· Any non G Wagen Members would pay £100 min on eBay for this kind of info.
· Members would have more info that they would ever need.
· If they needed to verify it they could simply add a post for you technical Sherlock’s to review and put right!
Unquote.
Harald Pietschmann has been selling G-Wagen technical info for years over on http://www.4x4abc.com/Mercedes-Benz.G-Class.manuals/
He may or may not have official MB sanction to do this. In my early G-Wagen days I bought a CD with the W460 and OM617 info burned to it. Nice, useful, very expensive and far from comprehensive in terms of covering multiple chassis/engine/transmission options.
Thanks for starting this thread Gav, and a BIG THANKS for the emergency help yesterday! You are a star.
Eddie.
I like the key fob USB idea, but, once a member has all this info for £25, why will they join again the following year?
Mark,
Perhaps just read access. £25 is peanuts compared to the ready replies somebody always will give if you post a problem.
I'm just elated with Eddies comment that I have posted a good idea
So elated that I am off to Jersey tomorrow on a mission and will be going to see a Super G and will be amazed if this drive will take me up to 100 mph! Those Jersey roads are just great.
Cruising down St Brelades Bay then a couple of beers watching the Masters last round......heaven!
Norfolk Boy
Before we go rushing off to restrict peoples access to the site for not being a paid up member of the GWOA, lets try and remember that the club only really needs enough money to maintain its current form. I don't imagine that is very much, although I would be interested to know how many subscriptions it needs to meet its annual overheads.
Lets be honest the GWOA forums are not exactly awash with posts and there are several days when there are no new posts at all. Do you really want to reduce that even more and end up with no one to share your vast wealth of G knowledge and enthusiasm with.
Some people come onto the site because they need technical information or buying advice others because they want to chat about G Wagons. Personally if I have the knowledge to help someone I am happy to share it with other G enthusiasts, plenty of people have done it for me. If they want to become a member that's great if not who cares.
Not so long ago this site was the go to place to look for G Wagons and parts for sale. Anybody could advertise for free and members would leave comments about the various G's to assist prospective buyers. The G's for sale section also provided a historic archive of all the G's advertised on the site and what prices were being asked for them going back years.
We lost all of that in one fell swoop when we decided to charge for advertising in the misguided belief that it would bring in a great deluge of funds. It obviously didn't and I see we currently have the grand total of two G Wagons for sale in the classifieds! Not only did we not make much money we threw away one of the biggest reasons people visited the site and the potential to recruit them as members.
Lets not make the same mistake by trying to force people into paying for information which in my opinion will do far more harm to the club than the limited financial gain.
Doug.
Before we go rushing off to restrict peoples access to the site for not being a paid up member of the GWOA, lets try and remember that the club only really needs enough money to maintain its current form. I don't imagine that is very much, although I would be interested to know how many subscriptions it needs to meet its annual overheads.
Lets be honest the GWOA forums are not exactly awash with posts and there are several days when there are no new posts at all. Do you really want to reduce that even more and end up with no one to share your vast wealth of G knowledge and enthusiasm with.
Some people come onto the site because they need technical information or buying advice others because they want to chat about G Wagons. Personally if I have the knowledge to help someone I am happy to share it with other G enthusiasts, plenty of people have done it for me. If they want to become a member that's great if not who cares.
Not so long ago this site was the go to place to look for G Wagons and parts for sale. Anybody could advertise for free and members would leave comments about the various G's to assist prospective buyers. The G's for sale section also provided a historic archive of all the G's advertised on the site and what prices were being asked for them going back years.
We lost all of that in one fell swoop when we decided to charge for advertising in the misguided belief that it would bring in a great deluge of funds. It obviously didn't and I see we currently have the grand total of two G Wagons for sale in the classifieds! Not only did we not make much money we threw away one of the biggest reasons people visited the site and the potential to recruit them as members.
Lets not make the same mistake by trying to force people into paying for information which in my opinion will do far more harm to the club than the limited financial gain.
Doug.
ONE HUNDRED PERCENT EXACT AND CORRECT - WELL SAID!!!
[/quote]
ONE HUNDRED PERCENT EXACT AND CORRECT - WELL SAID!!!
[/quote]
Nonsense, 60% at most.
Could try harder!
Nonsense, 60% at most.
Could try harder!
I think that on balance I agree with Doug esp about the need covering costs, perhaps a lower annual fee could be tried as an alternative experiment to see if it increases membership. How many members would we need to recruit at £10 for example.
2ndly If there is a surplus why not use it more creatively, perhaps a renovation of a particularly old vehicle or a diesel conversion of some kind, [an electric jobbie would be beyond the clubs means even if we did agree it.]
one option for the use of any 'surplus' would be to have an insurance policy/ cover for club members so that we have insurance for using offroad courses /land for gwoa events .
when we still had a southern area gwoa rep. joe drove down to the south west to scout for and view a location for the AGM, he found a fantastic site for the meeting and 5 minutes drive from there was a mega privately owned offroad course.
sadly joe pointed out that the club has no insurance for the use of such a site so that was the end of that / other clubs with small memberships manage to have such insurance cover .
the agm could of been within easy reach for the irish guys to fly in to the local airport and we had the use of an epic offroad course / all this now not going to happen - shame .
I think insurance is a great idea.
i can ask around , maybe there is a way to simply have a blanket cover for all 'paid up' members who are covered only when they are 'inside' their period of paid membership/ the cover could extend only to gwoa events or others?? and not just going for a hooley in some farmers field. this type of cover is usually for public liability/accidental damage/property persons/ it does NOT usually extend to having your g55 re-shelled if you barrel roll it.
it would be impractical to have a sub-register of members who want the cover as it would have to be managed by some poor unpaid soul who will have to be administering the numbers of covered against new members joining (or leaving the club) far better to get the cover as part of the membership/ this will make it much easier to book offroad events for gwoa at agm time / pay and play sites are all very well and good but you cannot beat having private access to superb facilities /the site we could of had use of for the aborted south west uk based agm was 'lambs lair' on the mendip hills . this site is used by the police /jeep dealer launches/ all wheel drive club safari's and technical trials etc etc .
I think insurance is a great idea.
Agreed, good idea.
Let me know if and how I can help?
Great responses.
It's a good few years since I looked into it, so have forgotten a lot.
totally mark, the cover is really only to be used for the agm event as it then can open up the potential number of sites that can be used , the one at lamb's lair on the ,mendip hills is private so you have to have your own insurance in place as an individual or organisation /club etc / the problems start when the b/s of risk assessments / numbers of people /first aid(ers)/
and gawd knows what else/ the marshalling is fairly straight forward and the MSA could be a great way of finding out how to arrange the right kind of straight forward cover without too much onerous rules and regs / other clubs may well be able to give good guidance on how to go about it .
The JLT Group handle the insurance for all MSA sanctioned events in the UK.
http://www.jltgroup.com/sports-insurance/
The GWOA would have to join the MSA and then take out club insurance through JLT. The public liability insurance would cover the club for MSA sanctioned events like time trials and RTA's but I am not sure how it works for a club organised meet with some casual off road driving on private land. That may require some investigation.
A couple of years ago the GWOA were offered a free weekends accommodation in the Highlands with access to 50,000 acres of off roading. The only stipulation was that this would be for members only and the GWOA would have to provide the estate owners with proof of public liability insurance. Unfortunately this was deemed to be beyond the means of the club and so the event never took place.
I think if the GWOA wants to promote itself to attract new members and organise more social events then public liability insurance should be high on the list of priorities.
Doug.
Good points and thoughts, Gav.
The "donate" side is one that I feel needs addressing. As you, I too, am frequently using other "free" forums, but regularly donate as a way of saying "THANKS, YOU GUYS HELPED ME OUT!"
Maybe a floating button on all the threads here, floating along as things progress down the page, maybe with words to the effect of "if this site has been of use to you, then please donate here to help us maintain it and to keep it free from adverts".
Straight link to the usual membership paypal portal.
And if someone donated £25 or more, automatically give them a membership.
The crucial thing is to make it easy for visitors to give if they want to.
@ bigblock
Yes, completely right.
I was "this close" (pinching my fingers together) to joining a month or 2 back, having just got a G, this site (along with the other sites out there, club GW and 3pointed star) are full of useful info. and i've had great help from forumeers on here; Gav & Axel to name but two.
However, with all the turmoil from the forum when committee members were bickering and leaving, I thought I'd hang on to my £25 in case the site went tits up and I lost my money.
I will no doubt join up in the near future though.
Hi Jim
I think its safe to say that the "issues" have or are being dealt with and the Status Quo has returned, onwards and upwards from here, but that is not what this is about....
I am sure this years AGM will have a bumper attendance and there will be many there with great ideas, constructive opinions and willing to get involved, that's what its all about isn't it? Not many people join a club not to have some form of social connection....
I know your a good guy and also contribute to the forum in a positive manner, pay your money and if anything happens i will send you a personal cheque to cover your "loss"!!!!
Cheers
Gav