Petrol vs Diesel G wagens
Hello
I am looking to purchase a Gwagen from about 80 - 89 depending on condition etc mainly as a project car with the aim of becoming a long term main car.
My question if what are the Pros and Cons of Petrol GWagens vs Diesel GWagens!
What are the prefered option - is there one!
Any types of major/common problems/faults that arise out of either or both in terms of build,driving,running cost etc etc etc!
Many thanks in advance :D
You should definately buy a diesel one :wink:
As I have one to sell. :oops:
But seriousley I am a complete diesel nut :roll:
However on reflection and after personal experience and especially in light of all the good high performance diesels now available.
The dear old 5 cylinder, 88HP and about 8 foot lbs of torque, 617 engine as fitted to the 460 diesels ( ie before 1991 ) IS VERY SLOW
But brilliant once off road, ie one is going slow anyway
So probably a gas converted petrol, is on balance, the answer.
HOWEVER
One advantage of the 617 is that it will run on virtually anything oily, waste veg oil etc, etc, so virtually free motoring, and quite legally too in the meantime anyway.
Cheers
Marcus
Yup - if you are looking at a diesel 460 then I hope you will have no need to go anywhere in a hurry....
Seriously it is a point to consider as I notice you live in London. I had a 6 cylinder naturally aspirated 463 diesel and it was a really effort to merge with traffic.... particularly on roundabouts.
Er
Fuel consumption
Try 22 mpg, for a 460 SWB 617 diesel, figs per Jesus and others
Me
I got between 17 and 19 on a fast ( for a diesel "G" ) run on the open road
I know this absolutely as she had run out :oops:
and i had put a 20 litre jar in, and it could have been 22litre
and run out again about 6 miles short of my destination :oops:
I had another jar to add, my tank is leaking etc etc :roll:
i wiil fix it someday , honest.
So much for beliving Jesus
Er
Fuel consumption
Try 22 mpg, for a 460 SWB 617 diesel, figs per Jesus and others
Me
I got between 17 and 19 on a fast ( for a diesel "G" ) run on the open road
I know this absolutely as she had run out :oops:
and i had put a 20 litre jar in, and it could have been 22litre
and run out again about 6 miles short of my destination :shock:
I had another jar to add, my tank is leaking etc etc :roll:
i wiil fix it someday , honest.
So much for beliving Jesus
Yes if you are going downunder
some of the guys in Australia or New Zeland have fitted Sprinter engines etc
a lot of work though
a manual gearbox diesel 461 might return 28mpg based on our automatic van doing 24 mpg tank in tank out, that is with the 120 HP engine, a real cracker, by my standards anyway
now how did I do that :idea: , I was only editing :idea: , I thought
If the conversion happens id want to keep it Automatic to say the least as the wife cannot drive manual.
Im thinking weather or not i can putup with a year of slow torture from the diesel or simply just go for the petrol - may work out better!
Oh another question is im kinda torn between 3 & 5 door?cant decide - im leaning towards 5 :?
auto diesels are very rare in pre 1996 RHD Gs..... and I would go as far to say that I have never seen or heard of an auto 460 diesel which is what you say you are looking for. not saying they don't make them but they are not common.
if you're taking it to australia get a 5 door - way more practical though even slower due to the weight.
i like the diesels partly because as marcus says you can put just about anything in the tank and it will run. it is a very reliable motor. and believe me with the current petrol prices you will notice it each time you fill up with dino.
Bill Moss has a 300GD auto , plus one went though ebay last week .
but as you say there isnt many.
Twodogs
no to many hmmm maybe i should snap up the one im looking at!
Its an 89 - 300 GD 5door sw Auto diesel 106000mls rhd
Needs some attention - im considering....
PS-whats tax like on these things!
"a manual gearbox diesel 461 might return 28mpg based on our automatic van doing 24 mpg tank in tank out,"
Humm.. aerodynamics is going to stop that I think.. a 2002 Disco TD5 manual does 28mpg regular .. and a 460/461 is a darn sight less aerodynamic (ie flying brick.. ). A 463 I would guess would be better but then you have the permanent 4WD drag to take 1-2 mpg off it.. my guess was 26 mpg for a manual 461/460 with the Sprinter engine but with some 463 bumpers and bits you might get back up to 27-28 mpg..
A 460 300D with the 617 will do 21.5-22 if you keep under 65 mph and drive steady but trying to hit 70-75 mph gives 19.5-20 mph on dual carriageway.. and that 6 mpg does not pay for that much fuel. Hence 617a (turbo'ed 617 from passenger car) will still do much the same fuel consumption as regualar 617 but you can then hope to see 75 mph as a more stable cruise.. mind you it is fun having to drive instead of cruise .. just feels more "pained" to push an 18 year old car all the time.. mind you a 617a needs a Granny Sprinter gearbox to last as a manual..
All horses for courses.. just trade off fuel verus purchase/conversion cost.
however if you ever look at printed specs for a G-Wagen, the autos actually show better mpg... only vehicle I have ever seen it on....
save up a little bit and get an early petrol 463, immesurably better performance than a "taxi" and not that much more thirsty than one either, especially if you get a manual, petrol is cheaper in Australia is it not?
If you are importing a G to Oz then there are rules which must be complied with. As a returning Oz citizen you may import a vehicle if you have owned it for 12mnths, tax free and you can bring in many different vehicles. If you are trying to import a vehicles not as a returning citizen, then you have to meet rules. I understand that ,in the case of the G, 1988 is the newest you can import. Something else to consider other than engines. There is an australian G forum board who would advise better than me on import. Incidently, the only G sold officially in Oz was the lwb 300gd auto. Petrol is around half price in Oz but remember the distances are vast .
Cheers Roly
I am not a returning citizen allthough my wife is Australian so could simply register it in her name save on that tax :wink:
Also il check out the Aussie site asap
Guess i got no choice but to go for an 88+ now
Thanks for that info
Put it in your wife's name then you can get a 463, that would be a better vehicle and even if you didn't want it yourselves you could flog it to the Aussies out there after a certain period.
But 460's are so much more more more reliable
than those overcomplicated 463
Especially for the vastness of Austriala
Common Huss
Back me up
:D here we go again .................
Twodogs
460 230GE - best compromise - reasonable power, reasonable consumption, easy maintenance :D
petrol with lpg, best choice any day, obviously depends on lpg situatuon in oz though
Derv, safer off road , less complex , less mainanence, will run on veg oil ,
Twodogs
Derv, safer off road , less complex , less mainanence, will run on veg oil ,
Twodogs
Yes, and doesn't stop with a few drops of water or even condensation in the dristributor cap!
your going to Australia, and want to ship it over there? . Just but a nissan or toyota mate !
Yeah if you do that they won't laugh at you and you get a better mor reliable vehicle to.. lol
Choices choices choices lol
Piggysims im likeing the Gwagen right now Especially as i want to redesign the entire interior to my specs(abit like pimp ma ride)lol
While updating the exterior first off and engine last.
So which version we aiming for then hehehe!
a 463 by the sounds of your last comment....
Dammn :evil:
Speaking from first hand observations ,and given your circumstance, there are really only two issues you might consider.
Diesel in Australia is about %17 more expensive than gasoline.
Aside from the practical consideration that diesel can be easily stored, does not evaporate, is the preferred fuel in isolated areas of Australia, and is thermally a more efficient fuel than gasoline there is little real advantage to a diesel powered G wagen.
Why?
Because in Australia there is an abundant supply of LPG sold at half the cost of gasoline or diesel and automotive LPG is available just about anywhere in Oz
Yes, and doesn't stop with a few drops of water or even condensation in the dristributor cap!
Have done over half a million miles on 3 230 engines and have NEVER had a problem with damp starting and regularly drive through 2 foot and more water in winter round here.
Just to note I drove to London yesterday - roof tent 235x85 mud terrain tyres and a 17ft car trailer (empty) 60mph uphill, 75mph downhill - 20mpg
Return journey loaded up with sprinter van :wink: 40mph uphill, 50 downhill
20mpg
Just to note I drove to London yesterday - roof tent 235x85 mud terrain tyres and a 17ft car trailer (empty) 60mph uphill, 75mph downhill - 20mpg
Return journey loaded up with sprinter van :wink: 40mph uphill, 50 downhill
20mpg
What you were down the road and didn't call in!?!? :P
dentsmithy wrote:
Just to note I drove to London yesterday - roof tent 235x85 mud terrain tyres and a 17ft car trailer (empty) 60mph uphill, 75mph downhill - 20mpg
Return journey loaded up with sprinter van :wink: 40mph uphill, 50 downhill
20mpg
What you were down the road and didn't call in!?!? :P
Under pressure :shock: :shock: :shock:
Yup - if you are looking at a diesel 460 then I hope you will have no need to go anywhere in a hurry....
Seriously it is a point to consider as I notice you live in London. I had a 6 cylinder naturally aspirated 463 diesel and it was a really effort to merge with traffic.... particularly on roundabouts.
Had both 460 and 463, 300GD, diesel automatics, used regularly in London traffic. Diesels are definitely better suited to automatics than manuals and once you get used to the engines, keeping up in traffic is no problem, at least with a SWB version. With regards to economy, however, the naturally-aspirated engines are not that much better than the petrol 300E, in fact pretty similar when cruising, although a little better around town.
With regards to economy, however, the naturally-aspirated engines are not that much better than the petrol 300E, in fact pretty similar when cruising, although a little better around town.
I would have to disagree with that. My combined fuel economy for my 300GD over three years of ownership was 22mpg and that is living in London. On a motorway I would regularly get between 25-29mpg and I would push that little G.
Spritmonitor unfortunately only shows two 300GES and they show a combined fuel economy of about 16.5mpg.
On paper the 300GD has about 20% better fuel economy over a 300GE. Which would fit in as my results are about 25% better than those 300GESs.
my manual 463 300 petrol returns 20 to the gallon in virtually all conditions, it may be 10-20% less economical than the taxi version but as derv fuel is now 10% more than petrol there is no room for smugness and I know that I am not contributing to the asthma epidemic
Can't compare West Glamorgan to London for fuel consumption. And vegetable oil doesn't contribute to the asthma epidemic either nor war.
the black smoke emitted by diesels contains particulates these are tiny particles of unburnt carbon and as such are a feature of such engines what ever the fuel. The very latest diesels engines are being fitted with particulate traps such is the concern over these substances.
PMs and carbon are not the same thing. You also need to consider what carbon emissions you are referring to.
Vegetable oil reduces all carbon type emissions significantly. It has half the CO, half the PM, a three-quarter reduction in PAHs and is considered CO2 neutral.
Ultimately there is no argument that burning petrol is better for the environment than WVO. Though it is arguably better than straight diesel in all but the newest engines.
my manual 463 300 petrol returns 20 to the gallon in virtually all conditions, it may be 10-20% less economical than the taxi version but as derv fuel is now 10% more than petrol there is no room for smugness and I know that I am not contributing to the asthma epidemic
There is absolutely no way that a 300GE could do 20 mpg on average. Unless it always drives downhill or it is towed.
swb, no bull bar, no spare wheel, manual gearbox, 50-55 on motorways, admittedly little city driving but a verifiable and consistent average
There is absolutely no way that a 300GE could do 20 mpg on average. Unless it always drives downhill or it is towed.
Considering where he is living and at a max speed of 50-55 I would believe 20mpg. I would bet that that is pretty much his average driving speed overall though.
55 is its optimum speed at which on paper a 300GE returns 21mpg.
Of course if he is driving that close to optimum he would be consistently getting close to 28mpg on a 300GD :!: Actually I think Roly was on his...
mortinson wrote:There is absolutely no way that a 300GE could do 20 mpg on average. Unless it always drives downhill or it is towed.
Considering where he is living and at a max speed of 50-55 I would believe 20mpg. I would bet that that is pretty much his average driving speed overall though.
55 is its optimum speed at which on paper a 300GE returns 21mpg.
Of course if he is driving that close to optimum he would be consistently getting close to 28mpg on a 300GD :!: Actually I think Roly was on his...
Of course! No acceleration from standstill, no slow lorries, no roundabouts, no sheep flocks using the road, totally flat terrain... yes, but then again Roly's consumption was 40% better with a LWB Automatic G300 Diesel.
Well
28.5 mpg on the 290 auto van
130 miles on 20.72 litres, absolutly brimmed
tyres underinflated too ( for comfort )
sorry to disappoint Mortinson but plenty of hills, appalling traffic congestion and loads of road works too. The only time this average has dipped is fully loaded with bikes on the rear and top box with the roof rack but even then only to 19. This is over a 4 year period. As to gibes about 50/55 mph its probably 10 years since I could average 60 miles per hour on a motorway, they are simply too congested. Petrol consumption on my ge280 auto was very poor 14/15 and when I had a 5 cylinder taxi (ge300) it was 25. So I put it down to having a manual gearbox yes the 6 cylinder diesel is a little bit more economical but the noise vibration and sheer sloth is not something I would choose. Besides people might apply the taxi adage to me, if all taxis' are diesels therefore all diesels must be taxis'.
Satan here 
Let's just say that one does not need to thrash anything in a petrol V8 5ltr G, as one approaches the 4,000 rev mark, one still has another 2,000 to go. Cruising at 70 will put one just over the 2,100 rev mark. And of course , being satan, when one decides to give it some 'welly' it is akin to having the four horsemen of the apocalypse grab one and then thrust one; past, around, though or over just about anything in front of one.
Around town? I get admiring looks from the ladies and that is good enough for me. When towing another G, one has to keep reminding oneself that there is another G attached to the back, and when one put the aircon on there is no loss of power what so ever.
And then finally there is that certain satanic smugness that one is not leaving black clouds of particulates every time one pushes down on the accelerator.
Accepting members since the apple was invented.
Spider1V
Hee hee, yes I did actually sell it (twice), and no you are not confusing me with anyone else - PLEASE how can you say that? 
, with me? 
after so long on the forum??????
.Maybe your sniffing too much diesel?
Fortunately life took a different turn, which meant I can keep it a little longer! And I only tried to sell it in three locations; Auto T (12 calls), Classic car (17 calls) and Flea-bay (6 calls). Had a number of dealers, as they were looking for a G 'as their personal car', they came round and made such stupidly low offers, I ejected them off the premises!
As an observation and chatting to other members, the greed with some of the dealers is astounding! They think that I will sell mine at £18K for them to clean it up and then offer it on the open market for £33K+? Get real I know that people have to make money and business must go on and I did offer them a finders fee of 15% for an introduction on successful sale (which I believe is a fair tickle), but none of them did not want to share their contacts or take me up on the offer.
So for the time being I get to keep my G500, have the fun of passing loads of smoky oil burners and experiencing the thrill of a V8 and creating memories before the government, tree huggers and oil companies consign such monster engines to the history books.
You should try it some time, would put a grin on your face, a beat in your heart and a memory that will make you smile.
Satan, out!
Most econmic Diesel G is the Soft Top I think with 5 speed Box at a steady 56mph, you might get 28mpg! Though probably you would get that with your G 500, if you could restrain the right foot Spider!
that would be down to the weight reduction
JOIN THE GWOA
This website and forum are provided for the benefit of enthusiasts and owners of all Mercedes Benz off road vehicles, in particular the G Wagen. The costs of development, upkeep and provision of the site are met entirely by the annual subscriptions of club members. If you are using the site and are not a member of the G Wagen Owners Association please consider joining. You will have access to areas on the site that are not open to non members, to club trips and meetings and to technical assistance. In addition your contribution (only £25 annually) will help us maintain and develop our website for future users.
Who's new
- Jaffa_JIM_23
- Wrabstar
- GG
- KTMSCANIA22
- 280ge
Hmmmm ok thanks for you inputs.
Eventually in about a yr i will be moving out to australia and most certainly would want to ship the vehicle over for use.
I dont think i want the slower diesl version but obviosly fuel consumtption must be great.
Anyone on here done any diesel "tuning" or engine conversions/swap for speed! :?: