Time for new front discs & lines?
Hello people,
Having done a search and browse through here, I can't find a minimum thickness spec for the discs on the 300GE, nor can I make out any writing on the side. Does anyone known of any figures for these?
The manual states a wear limit of 13 mm (500 GE V8 27 mm) for early W463 GWagens...
I believe those cracks in a brake line are a MOT failure...
Buy a set of ss brakelines from the club, they will improve the breaking effort.
Goodrich type hose is probably 3-4 times stiffer for expansion.. so your brake pedal feels is harder and better .. while being as flexible as the rubber OEM hoses. Plus the Goodrich ones are not as permiable to water... so the water does not get into the brake fluid so quickly and so things do not rust and water does not causing boiling fluid and brake failure.
Goodrich type hoses and Cupro Nickel brakes lines should be forced onto cars by laws... OEM cheap out with rubber hoses that absorb water and steel lines that rust.
Club is good source for hoses... but I have a set of unused 463 Goodrich hoses that I need to move on.. (they are not the same as a 460 :oops: :cry: ). Cost to me was £34+delivery and I have gently tried to fit the rear one so I guess it has a few drops of fluid on it.
www.goodridge.net
Goodridge part number for 460 SS brake hose SME0801-5P
Mercedes G Wagon 463 1991> B SME0800-3 Brake hose kit
Mercedes G Wagon 460 / 461 chas 055306 / 903695 B SME0801-5 Brake hose kit
4 front + 1 front .. but my 1989 has on 2+1 lines
for a 3 hose 460 buy the 5 hose kit, fit one to rear diff lock and throw one away (rear of 463 brakes is a different shorter hose to a 460)
Used http://www.brakesint.com/ for pads, discs (do calipers too) but then saw a fleabay set of disc/pads at even cheaper prices. Their warning cables I bought seperately did not fit a 1988 with 1 hose caliper.
You are fitting new pads? ... should do with new discs.
lol the job seems to be snowballing into epic proportions...i originally only wanted to do the brake fluid!
today i plan to measure the discs, if they are below/near minimum then i can plan the rest of the work.
mgrays the set of ss hoses you have is for an early 463 then (single hose type), might relieve you of them if i go ahead with the disc change, but so far i only need the fronts (will soon check the ones out back).
Thanks as always for the valuable input! pray for a sunny weekend..
I was impressed by the ss ones. The pedal is firmer. There are 2 on the front and 1 on the rear so three in all. I'm going to replace the standard ones on the 500 shortly.
Let us know how you get along. Same number of hoses on early and later 463s then, doesn't matter that the 500 has vented discs...?
If disc are just below .. then run them until the pads die .. no point worrying about them until you need new pads. That is when mechanics normally measure/change discs.
I ran a Citreon until the front disc cracked radially at about 170k miles with a heavy foot .. it did not fail terminally .. just made a thunk everytime the crack went into the pad under braking... there is normally a margin of safety in there and the piston do not tend to jam in the calipers which would be the other failure mode.
Replace the brake fluid every year regardless.. another should be standard OEM practice item.
Will look out lines and give you PM and photo to make sure you are happy.
fortunately, discs and pads are above minimum (~14.5mm for the discs) so no need for replacement, only the lines!
had a look yesterday to try and find the rear brake line, but not sure which it is...no.35 in the photo?
35 is correct. Its easy to see under the G. It is next to the diff lock hose and at first glance (like my mechanic) you may think that tthey are both brake lines. Don't swap the wrong one :oops:
Thanks for the caution, I was wondering why so many hoses/pipes/cables ran down there. One tube was out of a connector near the frame rail, so I fit it back, but it didn't seem to affect anything on the car. I assumed it must be a vacuum tube, but I'm still figuring out what it does...
3 hoses;
1 brakes
1 diff lock
1 vent hose that ends up on left front shock absorber tower
Here are promised photos 463 Goodrich early
Thanks for that, they look brand new!
they are brand new really.. fronts never been used, rear has been offered up and failed to fit a 460. Never seen pressure.. few drips of brake fluid on the rear.
you have a PM!
Out of interest, for anyone who had made the change (of brake hoses) himself, did you have to remove the caliper?
No. If you can unscrew the pipe from the caliper then you don't need to. Disconnect the other end first, then the entire hose rotates. If it is siezed then maybe you need to soak in wd40 first. Don't break anything or you imobilize your G
If you cannot get the short pipes off the flexi pipes then you need to take the short pipes off the caliper .. then wire brushing, "plus gas" or others lubricate, sometimes helps if you let the whole pipe+nut rotate initially (you can free nut off pipe later once nut is out of fitting). But you cannot get much force with an open spanner or even a special pipe nut spanner.. sometimes even have to makeup before you undo..
So if you fail do not keep going so you have rounded every flat.. stop.. cut the pipe off flush at caliper and use a 6 point socket to undo the pipe nut. Granted you need a new short pipe made up but you needed that already and it is far easier to make the pipe than it is to get a rounded, jammed pipe nut out of the caliper (or any other fitting).
Thank you gentlemen!
I am (now!) aware of the ease with which I can immobilize the G while working on this. Last week I broke a frail old bleed nipple on a rear drum, but fortunately it was seized in position so I can still use the car.
Normally I would try first then ask questions later, but this first experience led me to be a bit more cautious...we'll see how it goes!
I'm afraid the questions keep coming, until the sun shines long enough to go out and do the job! Best ask before I do...
The short pipes, does anyone know if they come pre-bent if I order them from the dealer or they are supplied straight and I have to shape them meself?
Any back street garage should be able to make new short pipes.. just remember to take the nuts+pipe as samples. A few on here like me will have the stuff lying around and dodgy flaring tools :? .. but for all the time/expense just go to a favoured Euro friendly garage with your samples..
MB will provide ready bent steel pipes I would expect as that is what EPC shows.. steel is kind of hard to bend that well (back street garage will use copper.. which is more corrosion resistant, easy to bend but has a lower maximum pressure (so smaller safety factor but still good enough)). The right stuff to use is Cupro-Nickel brake pipes .. as strong as steel, a little harder than copper to bend but easier than steel.. but 90% of folk will ask what that is! (Cu-Ni is normal short hand). So live with copper .. it will make you smile as it is so easy to bend and get a nice finish!
.. I could start on my rant about OEMs not fitting Cu-Ni pipes and teflon lined Goodrich style hoses from factory for a few pence again.. :lol:
Mercedes sells the pipes straight and you need to bend them with the right tool (see picture). Unfortunately, I didn't have the tool but managed to bend them with loving care and a blue spirit burner (to warm the metal before bending it). It worked a treat.
mgrays - you sure do know your pipes! I will inspect them today to see if they need attention...never thought of doing it that way.
mortinson - as always our "directory" of photos. I recall seeing that photo somewhere recently but couldn't find it through a search, which is why I asked.
Out of curiosity, how do you arrange your G photos? By area (like brakes, axle, etc) or date or what exactly...
Yup .. Morty is the always right reference to rescue us mere mortals with only a couple of years :wink:
Brakes... well I did spend nearly 3 years as a brake development (test) engineer/supervisor on production/industrial engineer for Lucas Girling for car brakes :) .. as a fresh sprog out of uni over 15 years ago and being a petrol/diesel/gear head:wink: Since then I have downgraded to oil industry .. better countryside/standard of living but incidences of hammer wielding employee's considerably more common :roll:
Out of curiosity, how do you arrange your G photos? By area (like brakes, axle, etc) or date or what exactly...
Basically by Model (460/461 and 463) then bodywork and others (engines, interior, exterior parts, tools, etc). Problem is that I have right now 16,557 GWagen pcitures excluding the MB press pictures and books, brochures and magazine scans so it's increasingly difficult to put logic on it all.... :roll:
Hope that you have them backed up. I have lost 3 computors over the years, taking everything with them. Crashing not stolen
Hope that you have them backed up. I have lost 3 computors over the years, taking everything with them. Crashing not stolen
Yes, I try to do a back-up copy every couple of weeks... Something I learnt after working for a multinational company for a number of years!
I am always fascinated by other G drivers, always an interesting bunch!
So after replacing the rear slave cylinder (due to the bleed nipple that broke inside) I proceeded to change the front brake lines. The nuts on the solid lines turned against the rubber hoses, but they would not turn without twisting the copper pipe with them, so I thought better of it, and put it all back together until I order new pipes from MB, borrow the "pipe bender", and reassemble the troops then.
Good decision. May sure you have eveything to hand as the copper lines are likely to break. Put some wd40 on it today in preparation for the job.
Thanks for the support. I guess I still need to invest in a small hand saw to complete the preparations. Both sides have already been soaked in WD40 :)
worked out nicely thanks a lot guys!
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Thanks for the pointers and info. Strange thing is it passed the MoT only last week, but that is not an item to joke around with, so they will be replaced ASAP. The MB lines are inner-steel with a rubber outer tube, while the goodridge hoses are simply steel (rubber inside I guess?) so I don't see much of a difference, but I'm still undecided.
Might go with whoever I get the discs from, once I measure them up.
Thanks for the advice! I love the summer...
btw. when changing discs, what else needs to change besides the rusty little screw that holds them in, if anything?